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  #161  
Old 05.09.2015, 13:17
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

Here's some grateful, desperate refugees receiving a donation in Budapest:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c4c_1441294833
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  #162  
Old 05.09.2015, 13:34
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

This is nothing by comparison to Breslau, Prague, Swinemünde, Pillau ... back in 1945;


the shame is that now, in the opposite to a situation back then, despite being there exactly on that very purpose, institutions don't care and politics don't do their job. We gave them our votes and they simply don't move.
I.e. Merkel, Orban and all the rest are part of the Problem, not of the solution. If rich countries like Germany, Switzerland, Benelux ... cannot organize professional help, who could?


In Syria, Libya, ... this is very different (but analague to 1945). No organization, no institutions, no State.
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  #163  
Old 05.09.2015, 14:00
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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- the rape argument: so you clearly say that refugees = rapers.
WHAT ??? Where did I claim that ??? You write of honesty but show absolutely none.[/QUOTE]

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if you look at Swedish crime statistics and explanation by real experts (not xenophobic websites) you will see that Sweden has been for at least the last 15years a country with the highest rape rate. This is due to several factors: the wider definition of "rape" than in other countries, and the over-reporting by police (the offense category is entered in the database before any investigation). This was already the case BEFORE the refugees came in the last few weeks/months. Google reports on this topic...there are hundreds of them so just take the courage to read and understand them without bias.
I have looked at them , and have spoken to Swedes - again these are the most hippy crowd in the world - and even with the very best will you can imagine even they could not successfully integrate large numbers. You clearly read what you want to. Refute these numbers which clearly show that peoples from certain African and middle eastern countries commit crimes at a much higher rate than the native Swiss :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Switzerland

Now for Sweden :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...d_crime#Sweden
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Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics. In a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention in 1997-2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were found to be committed by people born abroad, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes. Overall, North Africa and Western Asia were strongly overrepresented in the crime statistics. The report is based on statistics for those "suspected" of offences, but Stina Holmberg of the Council for Crime Prevention said that there was "little difference" in the statistics for those suspected of crimes and those actually convicted. "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," it said.
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- so you also claim that Hungary has no problems with foreigners or refugees right and that they care about integration?
Really ??? I wrote that it had NO problems with foreigners ??? And yet you write of honesty....
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  #164  
Old 05.09.2015, 14:19
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

As we speak, press conference with Frederica Mogherini EU Foreign Policy Chief from Luxemburg on CNN who discusses migrant crisis. Main issue that exist are:
• build partnerships in the region to provide humanitarian aid to handle the incoming flux of refugees,
• screen real refugees in need of help from illegal immigrants,
• combat human trafficking that results thenceforth,
• strong commitment and initiative from EU countries to resolve this humanitarian crisis.

Well, at least they are trying but time is ticking and actions always speak louder than words.
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  #165  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:06
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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As we speak, press conference with Frederica Mogherini EU Foreign Policy Chief from Luxemburg on CNN who discusses migrant crisis. Main issue that exist are:
• build partnerships in the region to provide humanitarian aid to handle the incoming flux of refugees,
• screen real refugees in need of help from illegal immigrants,
• combat human trafficking that results thenceforth,
• strong commitment and initiative from EU countries to resolve this humanitarian crisis.

Well, at least they are trying but time is ticking and actions always speak louder than words.
Mogherini is dreaming....dreams. Visegrad group countries have decided on Friday (Prague) against accepting refugees based on imposed automatic quotas. (it doesn't mean they won't accept any refugees as I'm sure some will conclude)
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  #166  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:24
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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As we speak, press conference with Frederica Mogherini EU Foreign Policy Chief from Luxemburg on CNN who discusses migrant crisis. Main issue that exist are:
• build partnerships in the region to provide humanitarian aid to handle the incoming flux of refugees,
• screen real refugees in need of help from illegal immigrants,
• combat human trafficking that results thenceforth,
• strong commitment and initiative from EU countries to resolve this humanitarian crisis.

Well, at least they are trying but time is ticking and actions always speak louder than words.
I noticed nothing was said about the terrorism they are fleeing from.

If you want to fix something you need to get to the route cause and the route cause in the case of the genuine refugees is terrorism.

Back the UK and US in the fight against terrorism.
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  #167  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:28
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Refugees refusing water from Hungarian police....sorry...it's just unbelievable.

If they refuse food and water they should be put in handcuffs and sent back to the country they are trying to escape from.
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  #168  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:31
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Back the UK and US in the fight against terrorism.
LOL. Where do you think the terrorists got all their cash and weapons from in the first place?

Our governments have been backing the wrong horses from the start. There were no bodies floating in the Med when Assad and Ghaddafi were still in charge.

I still remember when the Mujahideen were "the good guys" in Afghanistan. Anyone remember what they turned into?

Anyone who thinks that more American or British involvement is the solution to this sorry affair needs their head looking at.
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  #169  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:37
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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LOL. Where do you think the terrorists got all their cash and weapons from in the first place?

Our governments have been backing the wrong horses from the start. There were no bodies floating in the Med when Assad and Ghaddafi were still in charge.

I still remember when the Mujahideen were "the good guys" in Afghanistan. Anyone remember what they turned into?

Anyone who thinks that more American or British involvement is the solution to this sorry affair needs their head looking at.
That's not what I said, I said back US and UK.

i.e. instead of panicking now that there are thousands of refugees knocking at the door, join the US, UK and other forces that want to put an end to terrorists like ISIS.
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  #170  
Old 05.09.2015, 16:52
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Our governments have been backing the wrong horses from the start. There were no bodies floating in the Med when Assad and Ghaddafi were still in charge.
This is hilariously true. Even rule under Saddam was infinitely preferable to the current situation... we have done more harm in the last 10 years to these states than they could have ever have done by themselves in centuries. At least before the US got involved they kept the fighting amongst themselves, now we have destabilised entire countries, caused the death of millions, and essentially created large and well-formed terrorism groups with no aim but our destruction.

I don't call that a successful foreign policy.
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  #171  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:04
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest



Just depends who's flavour of the decade I guess.
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  #172  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:04
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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I noticed nothing was said about the terrorism they are fleeing from.

If you want to fix something you need to get to the route cause and the route cause in the case of the genuine refugees is terrorism.

Back the UK and US in the fight against terrorism.
The U.S. & UK should stay clear from this, reminds about morose way how they had handled the Middle East conflicts. However, the EU stands the real test of time to prove how in fact they united and joint are ... That's is instead of representing disjoint cultures and double standards with multiple excuses shoved on the table "how they have enough of their own problems and what what ..."

I wonder where are rich countries like Emirates and Saudi Arabia reaching out with helpful hand to handle their own folks. Guess they must be busy backing up the other side of the conflict.
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  #173  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:06
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

I will stop discussing with you because you are irrational.

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WHAT ??? Where did I claim that ??? You write of honesty but show absolutely none.
please try to read and understand what you wrote:
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Intellectual honesty ???
Look at what Sweden did - opened their borders wide open. They have gone from hippies to having a fascist party leading in the polls. You think it won´t happen here ??? Look at what happened to rape rates in Malmo and tell me people don't have a right to be concerned.
Interestingly you show then stats about certain africans & middle-eastern immigrants and crime/rape. Then you claim that you don't make any link?
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  #174  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:16
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Even rule under Saddam was infinitely preferable to the current situation...
Depends for whom. A Kurd or a Shiite probably wouldn't say that good ol' lil Hassan would have been any better. Or that the embargo after Q8 liberation did the trick.


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...
we have done more harm in the last 10 years to these states than they could have ever have done by themselves in centuries. At least before the US got involved they kept the fighting amongst themselves, now we have destabilised entire countries, caused the death of millions, and essentially created large and well-formed terrorism groups with no aim but our destruction.

I don't call that a successful foreign policy.
Dubya's invasion was all but professionally done, not talking about the civil admin in the country. Which has put before everybody's eyes that the US was a very weak and incompetent country. Created a huge void.


But this is not the point, at least not on the main stage, which is the refugee stage.
Of course having "natural barriers" like Quadhafi and a restricive Turkey, Libanon or Egypt, by which one could theoretically contain successful migration flows towards Europe, but probably at a price of an even bigger amount of people dying not on the Mediterranean Sea, but somewhere in the desert or in their homecountries, like some decades ago when no one gave a dam about and no media put their spots on,


we could still for a while uphold the illusion that Europe is a very peaceful piece of Island, no one disturbing its holy civilisation, please.
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  #175  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:26
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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Depends for whom. A Kurd or a Shiite probably wouldn't say that good ol' lil Hassan would have been any better. Or that the embargo after Q8 liberation did the trick.
I'm talking in an objective, general sense. Kurds were of course persecuted and had a horrendous time, but compared to the regression, barbarism, destruction and slaughter going on now it was comparatively tame, and at least society was ordered even if it was a cruel dictatorship. The country has since gone to hell in every sense imaginable, and I personally think it would have been wiser simply to wait for Saddam to die and then try to influence the next regime change.
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  #176  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:32
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

But only because a dictatorship (which is an institutional void) has been replaced by an administrative void again, plus corruption plus local tribal interests as the only base of stability, plus chaos in many neighbour countries, plus unwillingness (e.g. Germany, particularly) to intervene directly on causes.


But again, this is history, or better: we have this result as a bunch of effects of non-taken chances in the past.
However, I can't see how this could effect negatively the duty to help the refugees now, in Europe, and on its seas. In the opposite, the co-responsibility should enhance institutional help.
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  #177  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:37
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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I will stop discussing with you because you are irrational.
Pot , please meet kettle.


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please try to read and understand what you wrote:
You wrote that I wrote that refugees = rapists ("rapers" is not a word). I never wrote that. I wrote (and later proved) that stats in Sweden prove that refugees from certain countries have a higher proclivity towards crime - especially sexual assaults/rape.

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Interestingly you show then stats about certain africans & middle-eastern immigrants and crime/rape. Then you claim that you don't make any link?
No , I DO claim a link - but I do not claim that refugee = "raper" or anything else - not all are , just an unacceptably high proportion.
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  #178  
Old 05.09.2015, 18:12
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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I will stop discussing with you because you are irrational.

please try to read and understand what you wrote:

Interestingly you show then stats about certain africans & middle-eastern immigrants and crime/rape. Then you claim that you don't make any link?
Actually, objectively speaking, he comes across a lot more rational than you do.
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  #179  
Old 05.09.2015, 18:23
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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i.e. instead of panicking now that there are thousands of refugees knocking at the door, join the US, UK and other forces that want to put an end to terrorists like ISIS.
I don't believe that the governments of the US and UK do want to put an end to terrorists like ISIS. They're a convenient excuse for all kinds of illiberal nonsense.

If ISIS didn't exist they'd be obliged to invent them...
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  #180  
Old 05.09.2015, 18:36
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Re: Donations for Syrian refugees in Budapest

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I don't believe that the governments of the US and UK do want to put an end to terrorists like ISIS. They're a convenient excuse for all kinds of illiberal nonsense.

If ISIS didn't exist they'd be obliged to invent them...
Anti-terrorism laws are a great excuse for governments to increase control and surveillance very quickly, then when peace finally resumes the reduction in civil liberties will remain.
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