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  #261  
Old 17.09.2016, 19:50
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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I keep wondering if this interview where she told Palestinan refugees that they had to leave and made them cry had an impact on her? Maybe after that she stopped the pragmatic approach and let her emotions take over in shaping her refugee policies?
I seriously suspect something strange happened to Merkel around this time. These coincided with the greek crisis. Right afterwards, she disappeared from sight for a while. There were "Merkel Missing" joke signs around Berlin. And then she came back and appear to have lost her marbles. Her U-Turn behavior is like someone who is being blackmailed, or a menopausal crisis. I really think dictators such as her should be subjected to sanity tests and cat scans.
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  #262  
Old 21.09.2016, 13:21
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...hoen--21566793

African migrants in Switzerland - basically a complete disaster.
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  #263  
Old 21.09.2016, 13:50
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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I seriously suspect something strange happened to Merkel around this time. These coincided with the greek crisis. Right afterwards, she disappeared from sight for a while. There were "Merkel Missing" joke signs around Berlin. And then she came back and appear to have lost her marbles. Her U-Turn behavior is like someone who is being blackmailed, or a menopausal crisis. I really think dictators such as her should be subjected to sanity tests and cat scans.
It is a bit of a tradition in German politics that chancellors don't get involved in a crisis at front line level. Helut Kohl did things this way and so did Gerhard Schröder. Typically, some expendable minsiter is delegated to a crisis, and if he fixes it, that's good for his promotion prospects. If he fails, he gets fired and another takes his place. Chancellors don't get their hands dirty with an evolving crisis but stick more to big picture decisons. This is a big difference to American politics where people expect the president to take personal responsibility at the front line (even if it's just a fake photo op). For example GWB was heavily criticized for not moving fast enough when Katrina struck New Orleans. In Germany that would have been a junior minister's job.

Angela's disappearance is thus totally understandable and I think she was trying to pull a Helmut Kohl, with the big difference that she forgot that in such a situation Kohl would have been a big picture guy whereas Angela totally lacks any big picture vision.
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  #264  
Old 21.09.2016, 13:56
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...hoen--21566793

African migrants in Switzerland - basically a complete disaster.

perhpas OT - THe articlerefers to Tunesians as Africans (which, geographiclly, they are).

My morrocan family members get upset when I call them africans. the ones without dreads, that is
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  #265  
Old 21.09.2016, 13:57
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Angela's disappearance is thus totally understandable and I think she was trying to pull a Helmut Kohl, with the big difference that she forgot that in such a situation Kohl would have been a big picture guy whereas Angela totally lacks any big picture vision.
She seem to play a "say anything to last another day" tactic that is based on what she thinks is of danger to her position. She had crocodile tears about regretting what she did, but did not take any accountability for what has been done. She casually attributes it to Germany not being "ready", yet that is her responsibility to do before taking such actions.

I think the latest mea culpa is merely to assuage dissent with her own coalition, as she will tact back at the next opportunity. If her party is serious about their purpose, they really need to put a tight leash on her. Except I think Seehofer talked about giving her another month, after already giving her many months. I think these are all political shows to try to hold on to power as long as possible, without really doing anything.

In the meantime, the more extreme right wing is growing, and she still blames others instead of herself.
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  #266  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:23
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

Half a million failed asylum seekers have not been deported and are still in Germany. Who'd have thought?

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...geschoben.html (German only)

https://www.thelocal.de/20160922/550...ing-in-germany

Last edited by Loz1983; 22.09.2016 at 15:09. Reason: Added link in English
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  #267  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:28
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Half a million failed asylum seekers have not been deported and are still in Germany. Who'd have thought?

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...geschoben.html (German only)
Apparently Mama Merkel felt that they didn't have control of the situation for a bit "last year" which led to her party's poor showing at the polls...
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  #268  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:52
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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In the meantime, the more extreme right wing is growing, and she still blames others instead of herself.
I've said it before on this forum. If you look at the bigger picture of what she's achieved. Alienation of southern Europe, alientaion of eastern Europe, Brexit, if it had been her policy all along to shipwreck the EU she couldn't have done a better job. And now she's doing the same internally within her country and even party.

What I don't understand is that Germans aren't getting much more furious and demanding her removal here and now.

Well, one problem there is that the German press are for the largest part extremely complicit. It's worrying.

I'm not saying that Helmut Kohl's chequebook policy of making friends by spreading money around was sustainable either. But at least he did a lot towards building the perception of modern Germany being a friendly and efficient yet at the same time harmonious and concensus seeking country. But there are more ways of making freinds than just by throwing money at them. Merkel failed dismally when she needed to rise to that challenge.

Merkel pretends to be Kohl's political and philosophical successor, but she's wrecking so much of what he acheived.
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  #269  
Old 26.09.2016, 12:45
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

Hollande says UK needs to do more at Calais.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37469013

Why? They contribute to the EU budget and also are paying for yet another extension of the fence. Perhaps France should abide by the Dublin agreement and process the refugees in France as should have been done long ago.

It's no good screaming about the UK making a "sovereign decision", that has nothing to do with it. Both countries are still in the EU and should abide by EU rules. Refugees are to be processed in the first EU country they arrive in. As far as we know so far that's France so get on with it Mr. Hollande. The fact that they want to come to the UK has no bearing on your obligations.

Edit: Now this guy has the right idea.

http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-37289713

There must be plenty of places in Italy, Spain, etc, where there a few people now living. This seems to be a win-win all round for everyone.

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 26.09.2016 at 13:09.
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  #270  
Old 26.09.2016, 14:54
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Hollande says UK needs to do more at Calais.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37469013

Why? They contribute to the EU budget and also are paying for yet another extension of the fence. Perhaps France should abide by the Dublin agreement and process the refugees in France as should have been done long ago.

It's no good screaming about the UK making a "sovereign decision", that has nothing to do with it. Both countries are still in the EU and should abide by EU rules. Refugees are to be processed in the first EU country they arrive in. As far as we know so far that's France so get on with it Mr. Hollande. The fact that they want to come to the UK has no bearing on your obligations.

Edit: Now this guy has the right idea.

http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-37289713

There must be plenty of places in Italy, Spain, etc, where there a few people now living. This seems to be a win-win all round for everyone.
Most of them come from UK's former colonies, maybe that's why they won't settle for France... How's that karma thing- it bites you from behind?
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  #271  
Old 26.09.2016, 16:37
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Most of them come from UK's former colonies, maybe that's why they won't settle for France... How's that karma thing- it bites you from behind?
Really?

According to our friend Wiki in 2014 by nationality Eritreans were the largest number (25%) which was an Italian colony. Next were Nigeria and Somalia with 10% each - Nigeria a British colony, Somalia both Brit and Italian. After that other nationalities were Syria (Ottoman), Afghanistan, Kosovo (Ottoman), Mali (French), Albania and The Gambia (British).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

Not that who had which as a colony has much bearing. They all wanted independence so why now expect to be let in to the UK? And it still doesn't get around the Dublin requirement whether the migrants and/or the EU like it or not. They made the rules, now administer them.
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  #272  
Old 26.09.2016, 17:18
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Not that who had which as a colony has much bearing. They all wanted independence so why now expect to be let in to the UK? And it still doesn't get around the Dublin requirement whether the migrants and/or the EU like it or not. They made the rules, now administer them.
Maybe there should be some clause that independence is automatically revoked when more than a given percentage of the population prefer the old colonial masters to their independence?

It would save all those people having to move

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  #273  
Old 26.09.2016, 17:33
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Really?
Why not? A compensation of sorts.
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  #274  
Old 27.09.2016, 11:20
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Not that who had which as a colony has much bearing. They all wanted independence so why now expect to be let in to the UK? And it still doesn't get around the Dublin requirement whether the migrants and/or the EU like it or not. They made the rules, now administer them.
The problem with that is, the refugee must be proven to have been in France. Since they don't apply for asylum there's no proof where they came from once they're in the UK. As a consequence France has zero interest to process them according to the spirit of the Dublin Treaty.
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  #275  
Old 27.09.2016, 12:35
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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The problem with that is, the refugee must be proven to have been in France. Since they don't apply for asylum there's no proof where they came from once they're in the UK. As a consequence France has zero interest to process them according to the spirit of the Dublin Treaty.
Still, most of them have been sitting in the Jungle at Calais for up to a year or more so it's quite obvious where they should be processed. Perhaps the EU should penalise those countries who haven/t yet done as required by the Dublin agreement. That'll get them to shift themselves.

As for where they may have come from if they manage to get to the UK by sea well I doubt there are any other migrant camps hanging around in Belgium, The Netherlands or Spain so again pretty obvious.

And a simple way to know where they came from originally - refuse to process any claim for asylum unless they can provide documentation proving who they are. Too many get away with chucking out their passports, etc. Also refuse them any aid/money/housing, etc in the UK, unless they can. That'll reduce the attraction of getting there.
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  #276  
Old 01.10.2016, 20:31
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Still, most of them have been sitting in the Jungle at Calais for up to a year or more so it's quite obvious where they should be processed. Perhaps the EU should penalise those countries who haven/t yet done as required by the Dublin agreement. That'll get them to shift themselves.
The EU doesn't do penalties. For instance Spain and Portugal could have been fined this year for up to €2bln for not keeping the "Stabilitätspakt" (running too big of a deficit, among other things). That would have required a majority of the member states to vote for the fine, but they didn't.

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As for where they may have come from if they manage to get to the UK by sea well I doubt there are any other migrant camps hanging around in Belgium, The Netherlands or Spain so again pretty obvious.
While I agree on the likelihood, proof is required so probabilities aren't good enough.
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And a simple way to know where they came from originally - refuse to process any claim for asylum unless they can provide documentation proving who they are. Too many get away with chucking out their passports, etc. Also refuse them any aid/money/housing, etc in the UK, unless they can. That'll reduce the attraction of getting there.
Are you aware that some countries don't issue papers such as passports to certain (usually the dissident) citizens? These people are exactly those most likely to meet the refugee criteria. Don't throw out the baby with the dishwater.
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  #277  
Old 01.10.2016, 20:52
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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The EU doesn't do penalties. For instance Spain and Portugal could have been fined this year for up to €2bln for not keeping the "Stabilitätspakt" (running too big of a deficit, among other things). That would have required a majority of the member states to vote for the fine, but they didn't.
A major failing of the EU.


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Are you aware that some countries don't issue papers such as passports to certain (usually the dissident) citizens? These people are exactly those most likely to meet the refugee criteria. Don't throw out the baby with the dishwater.
Onus should be on the person applying for help, not the other way around - witness the degree of fraud which is taking place.
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  #278  
Old 01.10.2016, 21:12
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Are you aware that some countries don't issue papers such as passports to certain (usually the dissident) citizens? These people are exactly those most likely to meet the refugee criteria. Don't throw out the baby with the dishwater.
People who don't have papers did for the most part destroy them voluntarily, or maybe even have them but refuse to show them.

A relative of mine escaped out of the Soviet Union. Because he was a political dissident and at risk of vanishing the soviet had refused to issue him a passport. When he arrived in the west he was still able to prove who he was. People have driving licenses, diplomas, school and graduation yearbooks , maybe even newspaper articles with their photograph. You can ask relatives to send these on. In his case this was much more difficult than for today's refugees as the Americans had caught him crossing the border in Berlin and held him in prison as they thought he was a spy. The kgb had tipped the Americans off he thinks and leaked them an incriminating but fabricated story about his past. He wasn't able to communicate freely with people who could help as they were intercepting his post. It took him a long time to clear his name. It's not like today's refugees who have unsupervised access to libraries, the Internet etc.

Normally if you can't find out who people are its because they don't want you to find out. They may be from a safe country or maybe they are even war criminals.
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  #279  
Old 02.10.2016, 22:14
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Some more EU bantz over the migrant crisis. What is it with Luxembourg and degenerate politicians? Virtually entire population of continent is now opposed to allowing more migrants to enter, save for a few swivel eyed Greens and leftists. How out of touch is he?

Elections next year, tick-tock-tick-tock...

Exclude Hungary from EU, says Luxembourg's Asselborn

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...us-der-EU.html
"Virtually entire population of continent is now opposed to allowing more migrants" Early results from the Hungary referendum point to it failing due to insufficient people voting; "Virtually entire population of continent" did you write?
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  #280  
Old 02.10.2016, 22:36
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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"Virtually entire population of continent is now opposed to allowing more migrants" Early results from the Hungary referendum point to it failing due to insufficient people voting; "Virtually entire population of continent" did you write?
Yup only an estimated 98.2%of the votes cast in favour of stopping further migration...

Kim Jung Il levels of delusion here...
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