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Old 05.09.2015, 14:59
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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On another note, does anyone else find it funny that Merkel keeps insisting on other EU countries taking their fair share of migrants? I doubt any of them want to go anywhere other than Germany and won't budge once they're let in.
Migrants were ariving in Greece and Italy for quite a while... But there wasn't this chaos until Merkel decided to announce that Germany wouldn't turn anyone away! Seems to me she's caused most of what we've seen in Hungary!
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Old 05.09.2015, 15:16
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Migrants were ariving in Greece and Italy for quite a while... But there wasn't this chaos until Merkel decided to announce that Germany wouldn't turn anyone away! Seems to me she's caused most of what we've seen in Hungary!
Time and time again migrants are being conflated with refugees... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!

Merkel has signalled a willingness to allow in Syrian Refugee (i.e. those who fear war and persecution), she hasn't agreed to open the gates to those simply seeking a better life. And for that decision I applaud her for her leadership and boldness whilst the rest of Europe prevaricates. No civilised country should turn away those in fear for their lives.

As to why Syrians aren't staying put at the first country of safety, well perhaps if the camps of Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan etc.. weren't overflowing or if the Hungarian, Serbian, Macedonia etc.. governments were a little more welcoming towards them they might be inclined to seek refuge there, but anyway the figures speak for themselves, the overwhelming majority of Syrian refugees are already in their neighbouring countries, those making it to Europe are the overspill and those with an overwhelming desire to reach Western Europe due to friends, family etc...
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  #203  
Old 05.09.2015, 15:44
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Time and time again migrants are being conflated with refugees... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!
No... but not all migrants are refugees however all refugees are migrants. Migrant means someone moving from one place to another regardless of reason. Considering not all of these people are refugees.. then migrants is a fair term.

Now, that family, from which the mother and two sons drowned... they had been in Turkey for several years... THEY WERE SAFE.. they only decided to make the trip to Germany because of what Merkel had said about not turning anyone away.
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  #204  
Old 05.09.2015, 15:46
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Time and time again migrants are being conflated with refugees... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!
exactly. once they reach the first safe country, then they are no longer in danger. if they then choose to move on, then they are doing so as economic migrants.
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  #205  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:33
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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exactly. once they reach the first safe country, then they are no longer in danger. if they then choose to move on, then they are doing so as economic migrants.
Erm, no apparently. They could register to the UNHCR agency and apply for asylum/refugee etc in other country. Providing they can prove their identity.
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  #206  
Old 05.09.2015, 17:42
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

No matter what, this migrants crisis infesting the European Union countries should be another gute Aufgabe for the EU to show our ability of cooperating together. Exercise with Greece's bail out was just a warm up breeze ... Given present global socio economic situation there will be more to come. Are we ready for rumble?
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  #207  
Old 05.09.2015, 18:47
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Well it seems like it's all Busses and Trains lead to Germany now. Asylum Seekers/Migrants seem happy... Germans at the station seem happy.... all good .

I'm interested to know what happens now that they are in Germany. Where are they processed? Where do they stay? I have read a few articles (but there isn't much info out there), about people still waiting on Asylum decisions after 5 years, families living in one room and concentration camps being used as Asylum camps

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30811462

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallel...imbo-for-years
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  #208  
Old 05.09.2015, 20:38
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Interesting article from the Beeb.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34158660

For those of you arguing the migrants v refugee labelling:

"The current argument within the EU about the so-called "Dublin 2" rules takes us back though to the distinction between asylum seekers (or refugees in this context) and others.

The rules dictate that people fleeing persecution or war seek asylum in the first EU country they get to. In the current crisis, this would most often be Greece or Italy, but it's clear that many have no intention of settling there.

By the simple definitions of the Dublin 2 rules, there's not much debate - those who end up in places like the Berlin refugee centre are migrants since they have crossed through a number of other EU countries to get there. The search for a better life starts with physical security - but for a great many it is also tied to questions of opportunity."

And I totally agree with his final paragraph.

"As debates on the best way to deal with this continue, all manner of principles from free movement to majority voting will be tested as popular pressure pushes leaders towards a fortress Europe."
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  #209  
Old 05.09.2015, 21:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Of course it is true. Naturally, the definition of "humanitarian aid" is more generous than is usually accepted, and can include the broad spectrum of resources used for the purpose of assisting the refugees such as: funding expensive bombing missions, maintaining patriot missile batteries, satellite intelligence gathering infrastructure, training 'freedom fighters', covert funding of ISIS and all the general costs of the proxy war to undermine the Assad government.
Don't be obtuse. If that were the case, some of these columns would be WAY higher.
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  #210  
Old 05.09.2015, 22:04
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Well it seems like it's all Busses and Trains lead to Germany now. Asylum Seekers/Migrants seem happy... Germans at the station seem happy.... all good .

I'm interested to know what happens now that they are in Germany. Where are they processed? Where do they stay?
Good question. I think once the initial euphoria of "having made it" subsides, they will find the reality is probably not matching their expectations (ie: no house, car and job is awaiting them there). They will probably end up in the same tent-camps they refused to go to in Hungary. Since Merkel wants to have other EU states take in their "fair share" of refugees, some will possibly be sent back into some of the same countries (like Hungary) that they had already passed thru. If it was only a few, they could probably be processed and integrated a little quicker, but the massive volumes are going to require a different approach.
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  #211  
Old 06.09.2015, 01:37
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

In Germany in time span 1961-1973 came 2.6 million workers (not including families? Not sure about that).
With today food overproduction in Europe and better access to educational materials many people can be fed and taught new language and integrated into the work force. But yes, many more of them will be working poor instead of whoever they were at home.
  #212  
Old 06.09.2015, 02:21
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

And moving from one place to another for financial reasons or to improve you living standard is really not on. Have I got that right, Phil?

Nobody on EF would ever consider such a thing.

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exactly. once they reach the first safe country, then they are no longer in danger. if they then choose to move on, then they are doing so as economic migrants.
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  #213  
Old 06.09.2015, 09:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Can Europe absorb refugees?....Yes and History in Europe has plenty of such examples:
. 1919: 65'000 armenian refugees in France
- 1922: 600'000 russian refugees in Germany
- 1922: 400'000 russian refugees in France
- 1939: 500'000 spanish republicans in France
- 1956 194'000 hungarians in western europe
- 1968: 170'000 czech/slovak in wetsern Europe
- 1982: 250'000 polish in Germany (BRD) and Austria
- 1992: 700'000 yougoslavs in Europe
- 1992:300'000 albanians in Italy and greece
- ........
and they are not considered as "cowards" who refused to fight in their home countries.
  #214  
Old 06.09.2015, 11:28
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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And moving from one place to another for financial reasons or to improve you living standard is really not on. Have I got that right, Phil?

Nobody on EF would ever consider such a thing.
So you just turned up with a pair of hands and demanded Switzerland to provide you with a job, food and shelter then?

No, didn't think so.
  #215  
Old 06.09.2015, 16:11
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

One thing that still bugs me: the father whose children have drowned recently has buried his family in Kobane, the city he left because of ISIS.
Is ISIS not that bad after all or what. He even gave interviews to media there, and there was no sign of ISIS apparently.
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  #216  
Old 06.09.2015, 16:18
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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One thing that still bugs me: the father whose children have drowned recently has buried his family in Kobane, the city he left because of ISIS.
Is ISIS not that bad after all or what. He even gave interviews to media there, and there was no sign of ISIS apparently.
No need to wonder, it was a very short service.
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Rehan Kurdi, 35, and her two sons, three-year-old Aylan and five-year-old Galip, were laid to rest in the city's "martyrs' graveyard" alongside a number of Syrian-Kurds who were killed when ISIS besieged the city in October last year and again in June, after they were initially repelled by Kurdish militiamen.

The funeral was attended by around 300 people and only remained at the grave site for 15 minutes for security reasons. Mass gatherings in the city are now cut short because of the threat that ISIS may launch another offensive. The bodies were taken to Kobane from the Turkish border town of Suruc, where a suicide bomb, suspected of being linked to ISIS, killed 32 Kurdish activists travelling to the war-weary Syrian city in July.
Source
  #217  
Old 06.09.2015, 16:48
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Impressive warm welcome given to refugees by German and Austrian citizens and authorities at the border and main train stations. Several photos and videos of spontaneous movement by citizens bringing food, toys, water and clothes to refugees are being published on social networks. There is still hope.

A french newspaper criticized own government's passive attitude and wrote: "after several days of harassment by hungarian police, refugees discover the human face of Europe in Germany and Austria and discover that they are at the center of a humanitarian and political crisis". Viktor Orban gave an even worse image of himself and his party. Interestingly the published photos in Hungary show a lot of police force presence around refugees whereas in Germany & Austria the police seems to be more discrete and citizens present at the forefront. I think this is a fundamental trend and change.
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  #218  
Old 06.09.2015, 16:49
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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One thing that still bugs me: the father whose children have drowned recently has buried his family in Kobane, the city he left because of ISIS.
Is ISIS not that bad after all or what. He even gave interviews to media there, and there was no sign of ISIS apparently.

From March 2015 - Kurdish forces storm last stronghold of ISIS in Kobane’s countryside


Of course the front line does move to and fro and ISIS could attack again at any time.
  #219  
Old 06.09.2015, 17:17
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

According to a german opinion poll a majority of berlinese citizens welcome refugees from war zones and will not oppose the installation of refugee shelters in their neighborhood. The study also showed that mild to violent opponents of refugees have in average a lower education, lower salary and predominantly male profile.
Chances are that EF opponents have similar profile.
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  #220  
Old 06.09.2015, 20:53
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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From March 2015 - Kurdish forces storm last stronghold of ISIS in Kobane’s countryside


Of course the front line does move to and fro and ISIS could attack again at any time.
Yes, this is what I read - that Kurdish forces are controlling that area (since January actually), hence the ambiguity..
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