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  #241  
Old 07.09.2015, 13:27
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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EU is imposing once again double standards, this time through Merkel, Germany.
If you're trying to think objectively, it's impossible not to remark that there are thousands and thousands of people from the whole world who are in desperate need and who would qualify for asylum/refugee status. Frau Merkel is reacting under pressure, and it's better she reacted this way rather than playing the nationalist/xenophobia card which would add gas on fire and give a carte blanche to all hotheads.
By bundling all those who were critical of her decison with the ultra right wing hotheads, she has ultimately denied the existence or acceptability of an intermediate position, making it rather inconsistent if now she's going to try and assume one.

I would have thought after her knee jerk reaction over nuclear power that all or nothing populist decisons are rarely tenable ones. The lesson obviously didn't filter in.
  #242  
Old 07.09.2015, 13:39
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

It's as if the madness of the decision at the weekend is finally dawning on Merkel and Hollande. Both are now calling for "urgent action". 5000+ entered Serbia at the weekend and the same amount passed into Hungary. Now the boarders are going to close again putting Hungary in a really shitty situation which is entirely Germany's fault.

We're going to see some pretty nasty stuff coming out of Hungary in the coming days and weeks.
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  #243  
Old 07.09.2015, 13:41
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Well, it's not the first time politicians speak thru their asses.

The humanitarian crisis will be eventually resolved but I hope that the refugees won't have to go thru too much of personal trauma and plight because of political and socio-economic differences, indecisiveness, burocracy and miltiple EU state fruitless discussions

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  #244  
Old 07.09.2015, 13:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Y
(...)
I've a theory too that right wing people also don't really do protests, whereas protesting is a big part of lefty identity. So in situations like this the picture that's often presented is skewed.
Ohhh they do protest and are pretty vocal in Germany and they do also protest by setting fire in refugees centres (happened today in Baden-Wurtemberg and there are 5 injured).
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  #245  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:13
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Ohhh they do protest and are pretty vocal in Germany and they do also protest by setting fire in refugees centres (happened today in Baden-Wurtemberg and there are 5 injured).
From what that article says, the cause of the fire hs yet to be determined.

We took a sniff around a refugee centre in Freiburg a week ago and security was pretty tight. The perimter fence was more than 2m high and topped with barbed wire. The entrance gates are guarded by a private security firm (ironically one of the security men himself looked like a neo nazi and scowled like one) and they were definitely keeping a good watch on everybody who even came close. It could of course be that somebody worked a way around that but I would assume its more likely that in the above case some electrical fault or maybe an internal squabble between refugees is the likely explanation.

Empty centres are much more easy to set fire to as often they aren't guarded, and in fact most of those burnt only actually had the status as "under consideration for housing refugees".
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  #246  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:18
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I've a theory too that right wing people also don't really do protests, whereas protesting is a big part of lefty identity. So in situations like this the picture that's often presented is skewed.
It's not just about the numbers of protesters. It's also about who is behind them. The ANTEFAs and other pro immigration protestors ar actually getting government money.As the ANTEFAs are actually a bunch of knuckle dragging thugs more interested in picking a fight than anything else, we are actually seeing a recreation of the events of Weimar Germany and the nazi period where the government was in cahoots with the thugs and together they silenced opposition.
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  #247  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:20
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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¨In his press conference President Hollande, said France was considering air strikes in Syria, but ruled out sending not send ground troops into the country.

He said that finding a political transition that sidelined Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was “essential”.

Hollande’s announced that France is considering airstrikes in Syria, Germany says it wants to “expand its commitment to fight the actual causes of [the migration] crisis”.
Interesting. The EU seems to realize the only pragmatic way to halt the flow of refugees, is to get straight to the source, and topple Assad once and for all. Putin however, has been increasing military support for Assad recently. Hmm....I wonder how this will play out.


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Russia is building a military base in Syrian president Bashar al-Assad’s heartland, according to American intelligence officials, in the clearest indication yet of deepening Russian support for the embattled regime of Bashar al-Assad.




The anonymous officials say Russia has set up an air traffic control tower and transported prefabricated housing units for up to 1,000 personnel to an airfield serving the Syrian port city of Latakia.



Russia has also requested the rights to fly over neighbouring countries with military cargo aircraft during September, according to the reports
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  #248  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:29
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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By bundling all those who were critical of her decison with the ultra right wing hotheads, she has ultimately denied the existence or acceptability of an intermediate position, making it rather inconsistent if now she's going to try and assume one.

I would have thought after her knee jerk reaction over nuclear power that all or nothing populist decisons are rarely tenable ones. The lesson obviously didn't filter in.
Don't forget that the usual "criticism" is given in the unflavoured and tasteless form of xenophobia/racism. This is an issue that needs working on; no wonder you have knee jerk reactions.
I would have preferred to see pertinent and well-demonstrated discussions about the right to asylum/refugee status and the general legislative frame for implementing it, with amendments that need to be adopted (the duration of it for example). Have you seen that, somewhere? I thought so.
Also, it shouldn't be so dam' hard to obtain a work/residence permit for those who want to move to EU for work related reasons.
In her (Merkel's) defence, there's a lot of pressure for Germany these days, and everybody is watching them. Quite difficult to get an appropriate answer under these circumstances anyway.
  #249  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:30
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Meanwhile in Syria: Putin is maybe helping bringing the war to it's end by helping his ally, Assad.

Afghanistan on the Med, anyone ?

Actually, the news should be in this thread, but nobody seems to care about Syrians unless they show up in Europe.

Good for Putin, someone needs to kick the west out of the Middle East. THAT'S how you handle this migrant crisis. Stop bombing them.
  #250  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:41
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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in 2004, Gaddafi entered into a series of agreements with the European Union and individual governments, in which Libya effectively became a co-partner in enforcing Europe's 'externalised' border controls. Joint naval patrols with Italy; laws penalising illegal immigration; a crackdown on 'people smugglers'; new detention centres and deportation procedures; readmission agreements on migrants intercepted at sea all these developments reflected Libya's new willingness to cooperate with Europe's exclusionary agenda and many of them were part-financed by the EU and Italy.


From Europe's point of view, this system worked extremely well. In Italy and Malta, there was a dramatic reduction in the numbers of migrant arrivals in 2009 as a result of Libyan collaboration.

By outsourcing its border controls to a dictatorship without a functioning asylum system, Europe was able to prevent asylum-seekers from reaching its shores, while continuing to proclaim its commitment to the principle of refugee protection. Other EU neighbours have also acted as buffer zones in Europe's immigration controls, including Tunisia and Morocco, Ukraine and Turkey. But none has been as ruthlessly effective as Libya.

Gaddafi was a shrewd and cynical manipulator of Europe's immigration obsessions, which provided Libya with a constant flow of money, equipment, technology and also contributed greatly to his own short-lived political rehabilitation. Last summer he asked the EU for €5bn to prevent Europe from "turning black".
Interesting read from 2011.
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  #251  
Old 07.09.2015, 14:51
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

As an aside, here's how the swiss police dealt with pro migration protesters at the weekend:

  #252  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:08
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

ZH Police acted properly:

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the demonstration was transformed into a protest parade headed towards centre of the city. The rally was stopped by the police
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/migrant-...urich/41644726
  #253  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:11
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Interesting read from 2011.
Poor Gaddafi, everything was going fine until he wanted to kick out the central bank and back his currency with gold which would have came when he switched the pricing of his oil from U$D to gold. Oh no we can't have that, looks like we will change his status from good obedient dictator to bad human rights abusing dictator.
  #254  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:16
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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This current outpouring from Syria is not about economics, its not about benefits or an easy life in Europe, its about escaping terrorism that the worlds governments are far too scared to get involved in.

If the world grew a set of balls and stood up to terrorism maybe those kids would have been playing on a beach instead of dying on one.
Taking a step back, the best way to deal with terrorism is not to create terrorists in the first place. Both Al Queda and ISIS are infused with Western DNA from when they were initially conceived as asymmetric warfare to accomplish particular short term goals. That they've gotten out of hand and turned on their masters is largely besides the point.
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Old 07.09.2015, 15:22
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

How about the news that IS already managed to smuggle over 4000 extremists into Europe over the last few months? They allegedly just blend in with the refugees.

Just rumour in order to spread fear ?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...urope-Refugees
  #256  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:32
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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How about the news that IS already managed to smuggle over 4000 extremists into Europe over the last few months? They allegedly just blend in with the refugees.

Just rumour in order to spread fear ?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...urope-Refugees
Once Merkel hugs them and gives them fresh-baked cookies, they will break down in tears and realize how wrong they have been all along
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  #257  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:35
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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How about the news that IS already managed to smuggle over 4000 extremists into Europe over the last few months? They allegedly just blend in with the refugees.

Just rumour in order to spread fear ?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...urope-Refugees
Its in The Express, what do you think???
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Old 07.09.2015, 15:42
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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.I don't know, should this individual continue ruling what is left from Syria? Many people left the country because of him.
No, people are leaving Syria because of the U.S supported proxy war (you can't call it a civil war when less than 5% of the rebels are Syrian, that's called a proxy war or just "war" war but a civil war it is not) right after Assad signed an oil pipeline deal with Iran. Before that Syria was relatively peaceful. Assad is not the nicest man in the world but from some conversations I have had with Syrians he wasn't the worst either.


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How about the news that IS already managed to smuggle over 4000 extremists into Europe over the last few months? They allegedly just blend in with the refugees.

Just rumour in order to spread fear ?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...urope-Refugees
Chaos and fear is what the powers that be want so I doubt it's just rumors. They will want these people to terrify the local populations. So if they say 4,000 then expect 8,000. They don't want people putting up thier guard just yet, best take them by surprise.
  #259  
Old 07.09.2015, 15:46
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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No, people are leaving Syria because of the U.S supported proxy war (you can't call it a civil war when less than 5% of the rebels are Syrian, that's called a proxy war or just "war" war but a civil war it is not) right after Assad signed an oil pipeline deal with Iran. Before that Syria was relatively peaceful. Assad is not the nicest man in the world but from some conversations I have had with Syrians he wasn't the worst either.
.
Read some interviews with Syrian refugees from back home and they were very much against Assad (and his regime). Opinions and stories vary, trust me.
  #260  
Old 07.09.2015, 16:00
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Regardless if Syrians like Aassad or not, it's a proxy war there between US+EU and Russia. They need to find a political solution (soon!), or it will never end.
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