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  #21  
Old 02.09.2015, 17:37
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Horrifying. I have a child around that age, and it make me... well, I struggle to explain.

But, at the same time, this image simply reminds me that this isn't the only example - I can imagine that if you go to any war zone in the world you will see equally horrific images, as bad or even worse that this one.

Emotional blackmail over the migrant attempts at entry won't help. The question is should we help people like this or try to address the root cause?

And what, exactly, is the root cause? The conflict itself or the belief that getting the Europe at all costs are worth the risks it entails? Or is it even deeper than that? And how do we separate the economic spongers from the true asylum seekers?

What is clear though is that the social welfare systems cannot simply pay for everyone and anyone who wants to come to Europe, without some sort of massive reform.

*sigh*
if they are children, bugger the root cause, let them in. they have no say in their future and didnt make the decision to come. we should provide for them until at least they are adults whether they stay after that can be legislated for seperately. We should pay whatever is necessary to accept refugee children.
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Old 02.09.2015, 17:39
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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if they are children, bugger the root cause, let them in. they have no say in their future and didnt make the decision to come. we should provide for them until at least they are adults whether they stay after that can be legislated for seperately. We should pay whatever is necessary to accept refugee children.
Then what about the parents? Separate them from their parents, there would be outrage. Allow every parent with children in, then every migrant brings a child?
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Old 02.09.2015, 17:49
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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What is clear though is that the social welfare systems cannot simply pay for everyone and anyone who wants to come to Europe, without some sort of massive reform.
Give them the same right as you have, settle and work in a foreign country.
Or do you say you are the only good and right migrant?

It is funny reading migrants talking about migrants and refugees.
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Old 02.09.2015, 17:49
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Then what about the parents? Separate them from their parents, there would be outrage. Allow every parent with children in, then every migrant brings a child?
Yes I think separation would be the lesser of the two evils I would say. Something along letting the children stay but the parents have to be properly vetted. Or the family could stay together and go through proper vetting. not sure, have you got any ideas ? The only thing for sure is you wouldnt turn away young children who were in clear need of help.
  #25  
Old 02.09.2015, 17:49
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Don't get me wrong, but isn't that what happens anyway? If somebody is processed and waiting asylum, then they will be housed in an asylum centre which to be truthful, and I have seen a few of them, are dismal. The financial support offered to individuals i.e. a daily allowance is also minimal. Then if they are accepted of course they can go on to work. But if they are paperless anyway and, or still awaiting a decision, then they are not legally allowed to work and most, most employers would not risk hiring someone without papers. Getting sent home is another issue entirely as that actually costs a lot of money and how can you determine where home is, seeing that most of these peoples homes are rubble in war zones.
Indeed, anyway if these people are paperless then you cannot prove which is their home country. You could send them home to some random country who would refuse to accept them without proof of identity.
  #26  
Old 02.09.2015, 17:52
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

I think most of the displaced people will just move elsewhere in the country. Obviously the immediate neighbours will take a large share of asylum seekers.

While the EU should provide financial assistance and maybe house some people as a goodwill gesture, I am somewhat puzzled why the EU should become a destination for Syrian refugees.

Just geographically, Germany is far far away from Syria and you have to cross several countries just to get there. I doubt there is much in the way of shared language or culture between Germany and Syria.

If you don't stop once you are in a place of safety but continue to cross 5-8 countries to seek asylum, it becomes debatable how much of it is really asylum and how much is economic migration.
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  #27  
Old 02.09.2015, 17:52
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

great quote from Yvette Cooper, the labour politician today:

When mothers are desperately trying to stop their babies from drowning when their boat has capsized, when people are being left to suffocate in the backs of lorries by evil gangs of traffickers and when children's bodies are being washed to shore, Britain needs to act.
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  #28  
Old 02.09.2015, 17:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Give them the same right as you have, settle and work in a foreign country.
Or do you say you are the only good and right migrant?

It is funny reading migrants talking about migrants and refugees.
Talking about migrants (not refugees)? For sure. In that case they need to apply to work here, like I had to.

I didn't come here demanding the right to work here (pre 2002). I applied and crossed my fingers and was accepted, because I brought a skills set that wasn't available here at the time.

You really think that accepting everyone who wants to come here is the way forward?

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Yes I think separation would be the lesser of the two evils I would say. Something along letting the children stay but the parents have to be properly vetted. Or the family could stay together and go through proper vetting. not sure, have you got any ideas ? The only thing for sure is you wouldnt turn away young children who were in clear need of help.
So a person with a child would get in. I can't see that working well. What about cases where someone willingly gives their child to a stranger to get them to Europe. Is that OK or not?

Besides, do you really think that orphanages are really the solution?
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  #29  
Old 02.09.2015, 18:03
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Then what about the parents? Separate them from their parents, there would be outrage.
There are actually tens of thousands of unaccompanied children and teenagers arriving in Germany. Mostly 13-18 year old boys, but some younger. By now is it well known among the refugees that minors get better housing and treatment, so apparently do a lot of 19-20 year olds pretend to be younger... and the German social service has set up some specialists to figure out who is lying about their age.
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  #30  
Old 02.09.2015, 18:03
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I am watching the news, currently showing the migrants protesting in Budapest and I'm slightly horrified with the way the EU are handling all the migrants... or are not handling them.

My view point is that genuine Asylum Seekers should be taken into the EU, but it need to be handled properly, unlike the situation now. If I were leading the EU I would;

Temporarily suspend Schengen and close the borders, to re-gain a little control and try to prevent the stream of people determined to get to Germany.

Set up large centres in the countries where the Asylum Seekers are first arriving (Greece, Italy, Hungary etc) to provide shelter, food, medical care and processing etc. They should be held there until processed (not allowed to wander across Europe).

Quotas should be decided as to how many Asylum Seekers each EU country should take based on Current Population and Land Area and wealth of the country.

Once processed Asylum Seekers should be sent to an EU country of the EUs choosing.

How do you think the EU should deal with the situation?
I broadly agree with all of that for the immediate crisis.

The system of seeking asylum in the first safe country is clearly not fit for purpose in these circumstances. Some countries are becoming totally overwhelmed while others sit back and put up barriers.

I think that the centres should be set up as near to the points of origin as possible so that refugees don't have to face a long journey to safety and to deter the people trafficking. For instance for any refugees from Afghanistan couldn't Camp Bastion be used? Perhaps similar safe zones could be set up elsewhere. This should probably be managed by the United Nations with the aid agencies rather than national governments.

I agree with the quota system but think that it should include countries outside the EU as well. e.g. The USA. There should be some flexibility in where refugees are sent to if they have a genuine connection with a particular country. e.g. long established family members there.

In the longer term, the situations in the various countries need to be resolved. I doubt if military intervention would solve the situations though
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  #31  
Old 02.09.2015, 18:05
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Talking about migrants (not refugees)? For sure. In that case they need to apply to work here, like I had to.

I didn't come here demanding the right to work here (pre 2002). I applied and crossed my fingers and was accepted, because I brought a skills set that wasn't available here at the time.

You really think that accepting everyone who wants to come here is the way forward?



So a person with a child would get in. I can't see that working well. What about cases where someone willingly gives their child to a stranger to get them to Europe. Is that OK or not?

Besides, do you really think that orphanages are really the solution?
dunno about the details, it would be worked out. Instead of criticizing, lets put it on the other foot then, a boy is washed up on the coast from syria, barely alive, with no adults. What do you do ? send him back ?

Orphanages are better than drowning. How you manage it is for technical people to work out. is absolutely does not move my position on it one inch: I dont care about adults, but children should always be accepted.
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  #32  
Old 02.09.2015, 18:16
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Talking about migrants (not refugees)? For sure. In that case they need to apply to work here, like I had to.

I didn't come here demanding the right to work here (pre 2002). I applied and crossed my fingers and was accepted, because I brought a skills set that wasn't available here at the time.

You really think that accepting everyone who wants to come here is the way forward?
That's way you should not call a refugee a migrant (I think there is a thread for that).
About accepting everyone. Certainly not, but I am not the one which thinks the FMOP is such a bright idea where a certain class is free to come in any number. I actually like Art. 121a of the constitution as long it is fair to anyone regardless of country of origin. The two class situation we have know is not a solution and racist.
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  #33  
Old 02.09.2015, 18:31
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Quotas should be decided as to how many Asylum Seekers each EU country should take based on Current Population and Land Area and wealth of the country.
This reminds me of Earth Over Shoot Day:

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Earth Overshoot Day, is the calculated illustrative calendar date on which humanity's resource consumption for the year exceeds Earth's capacity to regenerate those resources that year.
This could be one measure towards setting up a quota system showing countries with the greatest capacity to accommodate increased populations
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  #34  
Old 02.09.2015, 19:03
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Give them the same right as you have, settle and work in a foreign country.
Or do you say you are the only good and right migrant?

It is funny reading migrants talking about migrants and refugees.
They have the same right. With the necessary skills/experience they can apply to work in any country in the world if an employer can get the proper documentation for them, same as I would need if I wanted to work anywhere outside of the EU.

Most of these people are economic migrants, not refugees or asylum seekers, who can't or won't be bothered to do just that. Which is why they should be sent back where they came from.
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  #35  
Old 02.09.2015, 19:24
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Most of these people are economic migrants, not refugees or asylum seekers, who can't or won't be bothered to do just that. Which is why they should be sent back where they came from.
Those in Budapest? Most of them are Syrian refugees. Really want to send them back to the IS?
  #36  
Old 02.09.2015, 19:38
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Those in Budapest? Most of them are Syrian refugees. Really want to send them back to the IS?
Most in Budapest are from the Balkans. And IS don't even control most of Syria.
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  #37  
Old 02.09.2015, 20:10
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Muslim immigrants commit nearly 77.6% of all rape crimes in Sweden and 50% in Denmark:

http://www.bt.dk/danmark/hveranden-v...-er-udlaending

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...l-rape-crimes/
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  #38  
Old 02.09.2015, 20:11
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Every day I am thankful I was born where I was borne and wonder what I would be doing now had I been born in say, Syria.

However, I also wonder why everyone is moving north west and not south east. Surely the rich Gulf states who share a similar culture and religion would be more attractive??
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  #39  
Old 02.09.2015, 20:20
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Every day I am thankful I was born where I was borne and wonder what I would be doing now had I been born in say, Syria.

However, I also wonder why everyone is moving north west and not south east. Surely the rich Gulf states who share a similar culture and religion would be more attractive??

One cannot live for free over there
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  #40  
Old 02.09.2015, 20:33
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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One cannot live for free over there
I doubt many immigrants will live for free for long, as history has proved (Ugandan Asians). In fact we are witnessing a kind of brain drain as the fittest, most intelligent and enterprising make their way to Europe...
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