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  #521  
Old 14.09.2015, 16:36
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Of course the army has no jurisdiction unless they declare Martial Law
I think they are just helping with logistics, food, tents, etc.

Interesting read. Germany is trying to distribute migrants/refugees in E.Europe, but E.Europe countries are resisting, and refugees/migrants don't want to go there anyway. The best way to "fix" this would be for the EU to drive truckloads of cash to E.Europe in order to bring up the standard of living there to West Europe standards and hence make it more "attractive" place to migrants/refugees.

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Remember Budapest railway station? Did those people want to stay in Hungary? Would they want to stay in Hungary if sent back under a compulsory quota system? No, they will still try to reach Germany or Austria, where they have their relatives and better living standards.


In an economic sense, the only way to reach a level playing field is to ensure the same quality of life all over Europe. And here the gulf between rich and poor is huge. Under Estonian law, refugees are entitled to same social benefits as Estonian citizens, which means that a refugee in Estonia (the 6th-poorest EU state) will receive €90 per month. A refugee in Denmark, by comparison, gets €797.



A harmonization of social benefits for refugees is not a political option — none of the governments in poorer states could explain to their citizens why third-country nationals should be treated better than their own citizens.
  #522  
Old 14.09.2015, 17:15
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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The best way to "fix" this would be for the EU to drive truckloads of cash to E.Europe in order to bring up the standard of living there to West Europe standards and hence make it more "attractive" place to migrants/refugees.

No, any easy money would be just stolen by cronies installed by Mr. Donald Tusk (who himself was installed by die Mutti as European Council President, so he gave up being a PM of Poland). It is cheaper to bribe the clique with further prominent EU posts like this one. Poland's gov't are known to be corrupt, see for example this - how CIA got to create its prison on Polish soil and paid for cooperation:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0JO03320141210

But in about a month there will be parliamentary election in PL and the ruling Tusk's party may be voted out, so the gov't has made some agreements with EU on the refugees but is not even disclosing them to the public, just in case.

We all know that toyota hilux and kalashnikov aren't manufactured in the Middle East, so if US pressed hard enough the weapons and money supply would slow down, but they are set to turn Syria into another Iraq.
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  #523  
Old 14.09.2015, 18:21
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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The best way to "fix" this would be for the EU to drive truckloads of cash to E.Europe in order to bring up the standard of living there to West Europe standards and hence make it more "attractive" place to migrants/refugees.
Where from would they take their serfs then?
Mind you, everyone, and I say everyone seems to have rights in Europe, except for the E.E. serfs. They can take everything comes along...they're used to.
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  #524  
Old 14.09.2015, 20:10
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

So, if I'm not mistaken, what happened is:
- Hungary: we build a fence and stop the immigrants. We stop the trains to Austria and Germany. We will fingerprint and detain all the refugees who come anyway and proceed according to the Dublin agreements.
- Germany: refugees- we'll take you all. You Hungarians are bad because of the fence.
- Germany: but we will also tell the rest of EU what they must do - take their share of immigrants, invited by us.
- Austria: Germany lets them in, so let's help them on their way.
- Europe (not just Eastern): Germany is not (yet) our master.
- Germany: stupid Europe doesn't listen to us. Our society sets refugee shelters on fire, lands are loudly protesting federal decisions, federal gov't: ups, close the borders.
- Austria: ouch!
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  #525  
Old 14.09.2015, 22:04
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Well, Germany has really fooked this up. Borders closed. Migrants stranded. And the rest of Europe seriously pissed.

Still, at least if you live in Germany you have this to look forward to. Coming to a town near you...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bae_1442189286
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  #526  
Old 14.09.2015, 22:05
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Are you sure about that?

Isn't Martial Law when the military supercedes civilian law? But in this case, are they not just upholding existing standing laws? If the army is not for the purpose of protecting borders, what is their purpose? Isn't it legitimate to use them for border control?
Armies are for fighting officially declared wars.
Exact powers are usually defined in the Constitution and by laws that define their role in more detail.
Military roles in law enforcement have to be carefully defined; you do not want some squaddie to book you for criminally poor driving on your way to work tomorrow?

Plus the military are not trained in law enforcement.

In the US, for example, "
in May 2006, the Administration launched Operation JUMP START, a deployment of over 6,000 National Guardsmen from 48 states designed to "strengthen border security and encourage deterrence."

But they were careful to state "
law enforcement along the border between the ports of entry will remain the responsibility of Border Patrol agents. The National Guard will play no direct law enforcement role in the apprehension, custodial care or security of those who are detained."

If a soldier in the German or Austrian army actually shoots someone
then it will be interesting to see how they will be treated; charged with attempted murder?
  #527  
Old 15.09.2015, 02:01
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Armies are for fighting officially declared wars.
Exact powers are usually defined in the Constitution and by laws that define their role in more detail.
Not exclusively. The Army can be deployed for anything that requires a large amount of man power. They even do engineering services if needed.



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Well, Germany has really fooked this up. Borders closed. Migrants stranded. And the rest of Europe seriously pissed.

Still, at least if you live in Germany you have this to look forward to. Coming to a town near you...
Allocate 10 Billion for mandatory Anger Management Courses. If you even hire an EU agency to conduct the program, they might even make it mandatory for the rest of Europe. There, they could explain to Europeans that they better not piss off the migrants.
  #528  
Old 15.09.2015, 08:45
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Still, at least if you live in Germany you have this to look forward to. Coming to a town near you...

Girls in Bikini & cute cats ?
  #529  
Old 15.09.2015, 13:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Well, Germany has really fooked this up. Borders closed. Migrants stranded. And the rest of Europe seriously pissed.

Still, at least if you live in Germany you have this to look forward to. Coming to a town near you...

Ah sheesh.... just like back in Africa!
  #530  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:14
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Here's example of some more food for stirring propaganda.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10501290.html
  #531  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Here's example of some more food for stirring propaganda.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10501290.html
you spoiled the pleasure of the usual suspects that come up with hoaxes in this thread
  #532  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

This cartoon tells the story so well.

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  #533  
Old 15.09.2015, 18:01
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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This cartoon tells the story so well.

I also have the impression that I'm feeding the trolls in this thread.....
  #534  
Old 15.09.2015, 18:29
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

On Merkel's back pedalling, some of her people say it is to put pressure on other EU countries. But its clear the conservatives in Bavaria lashed back. The problem stands that there are people still putting their families on rubber dinghies, and can drown, all because of her goofiness. Mama Merkel really needs to send a clear message to them not to do it. This kind of vain posturing can cost real lives in this situation.

Meanwhile, David Cameron says he's right, and Merkel is wrong, by insisting the refugees be picked up from a refugee camp near Syria.

I think DC wins the Sobriety award for his approach.
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  #535  
Old 15.09.2015, 18:36
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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On Merkel's back pedalling, some of her people say it is to put pressure on other EU countries. But its clear the conservatives in Bavaria lashed back. The problem stands that there are people still putting their families on rubber dinghies, and can drown, all because of her goofiness. Mama Merkel really needs to send a clear message to them not to do it. This kind of vain posturing can cost real lives in this situation.

Meanwhile, David Cameron says he's right, and Merkel is wrong, by insisting the refugees be picked up from a refugee camp near Syria.

I think DC wins the Sobriety award for his approach.
Personally I still think Merkel is more a populist than anything else. She thought she could resonate with a lot of Germans by doing the open door thing and becoming the leader of that, but now sees there is a backlash brewing so she's trying to be the leader of that too.

To paraphrase Churchil, she's trying to work out where her people are heading so she can lead them there.

As for Cameron, it's very difficult to be a responsible leader and still do the right thing from a humanitarian point of view when you're sharing the stage with a clown who will do what ever it takes to be popular.
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  #536  
Old 15.09.2015, 18:36
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

So earlier today Merkel announced that she will hold an apero and has extended an open invite to this all you can drink event. Well, unsurprisingly loads of people turned up. Some with the intention of getting riotously drunk. Others decided to come and swipes some champagne for resale.

Anyhow, it's costing a heck of a lot more than expected, so she has suggested that her neighbours (who weren't particularly happy with the suggestion in the first place) should help pitch in some cash to pay for the party and do their fair share of cleaning up.

Apparently, her lawyers are referring to some clause in the neighbourhood bylaws to enforce this.
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  #537  
Old 15.09.2015, 19:04
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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To paraphrase Churchil, she's trying to work out where her people are heading so she can lead them there.
I'm trying to understand on what grounds Merkel is considered conservative, or right wing. In this episode, it totally looks like social engineering, and I gather it is something she picked up from her DDR upbringing.
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  #538  
Old 15.09.2015, 19:28
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Interesting analysis in Le Temps on why Eastern Europe countries aren't that welcoming immigrants/refugees - quite readable with Google Translate as well:
Mais pourquoi donc l’Europe de l’Est refuse-t-elle d’accueillir les réfugiés?
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  #539  
Old 15.09.2015, 21:27
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I also have the impression that I'm feeding the trolls in this thread.....
Let's see here:
  • Gets destroyed on facts about immigrant crime
  • Made to look daft by claiming that Schroeder and Merckel are "long term thinkers"
  • Repeats above ad nauseam despite all evidence to the contrary and being unable to refute such
Could it be you that is the troll ???
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  #540  
Old 15.09.2015, 21:42
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How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Between January and July 2015, 75'000 people from Albania, Serbia and Macedonia entered Germany and requested asylum status. They will be turned down by german authorities before the end of the year as those countries are considered as safe.

And when Hungary deems Serbia safe then Germany/EU say: no, it isn't safe for the refugees, we must establish uniform criteria - Brussels will decide who gets a refugee status, and then indicated member country has to take care of them. How is this going to fly with let's say UK - I wonder.
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