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  #1301  
Old 31.10.2015, 10:32
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Yeah, I think this thread is better off with more substance that the usual tit-for-tat, so ladies... please! Meeoooow!

So here we have two dealing Hungarians at the centre of the crisis:

Orban: Soros Stoking Refugee Wave to Weaken Europe

Soros: Rebuilding the Asylum System

I thought I detected Open Society Foundation's fingerprints in the operation. This somewhat confirms it. Now I'm just trying to figure out what to make of it.

Should I buy or sell Euros?
  #1302  
Old 31.10.2015, 10:58
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Finally, they've got it all figured out:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34683056

"A senior Bavarian politician said that under the agreement, 50 migrants an hour could cross into the state at the five agreed points."

"...Austria was receiving 11,000 people a day just at the Spielfeld crossing from Slovenia."


So, doing the math, that's 1200 migrants a day that can enter.(or, best case scenario, they can process 50/hr at each of the entry points - 6000 migrants/day). Given that there is a backlog of at least 4000 migrants waiting in the cold to enter Austria, and that over 105,000 migrants have entered Slovenia in the past 2 weeks, with more on the way----oh boy, this might take a while! I hope the migrants have comfy insoles.

In other news, at least 77 children have died en route since Merkel hastily decided to dangle a carrot in front of the displaced masses.
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  #1303  
Old 31.10.2015, 11:01
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Yeah, I think this thread is better off with more substance that the usual tit-for-tat, so ladies... please! Meeoooow!

So here we have two dealing Hungarians at the centre of the crisis:

Orban: Soros Stoking Refugee Wave to Weaken Europe

Soros: Rebuilding the Asylum System

I thought I detected Open Society Foundation's fingerprints in the operation. This somewhat confirms it. Now I'm just trying to figure out what to make of it.

Should I buy or sell Euros?
Exactly what I said - there is no common asylum policy for the moment, and this is the big change that is pushed by some agendas.
Not the current refugee waves are at stake here, and not necessarily because of them people oppose to these plans.
EU was a project that is taking a different form and shape than the one for which people were relatively ready. The Eastern extension of EU was heavily criticised in the media, debates after debates reaching the point when they simply turned to racism (I am referring to UK here), were allowed and even more, encouraged. Now we experience this silence. Total silence from the EU authorities. EU is making more for the migrants from other continents than for the people they represent.
Double standard policies are just life facts, I know, but accepting everything without questioning is cowardice, to put it mildly.
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Old 31.10.2015, 11:21
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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The mufti of Jerusalem was a devout Muslim with huge following. He was also a genocidal fascist, but he is still considered a role model for many Arabs.Terrorism is widely supported in the Arab world. These are undisputed facts.

Europe needs to figure out quickly how to manage the immigration of so many people holding such opinions.
This is all BS and historical revisionism the only genocides the jews suffered from took place in eastern europe and germany. Stating like Netanyahu that the final solution was not Hitler's idea but the Mufti's idea is plain stupidity that was condemned by all serious historians including the ones from Yad Vashem.
The conclusion is that Netanyahu and ppl like you hate palestinians more than they hate nazis. The terrorism is also part of the Israeli system: fascist settlers (burning mosques and babies) are protected by the system.
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Old 31.10.2015, 17:48
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Sorry Esto but you are mixing a lot of things. I would like to know first what is your experience regarding muslims in general? Do you know any personally or did you travel to muslim countries?
LOL, what kinds of questions are these? Should I send you my "credentials"? A CV that lists all my experiences with Muslim people and a copy of my passport bearing stamps to Arabic lands? FWIW I have been to a few Arabic countries and have known and worked with several Muslim people. Do I qualify to converse on the topic with you now?

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So to answer some of your questions:
1) I accept and understand those who say that we cannot manage the amount of refugees in Europe and therefore need to put a limit.

2) I only support true refugees fleeing war zones not economic refugees. they should be sent back.

3) what I really don't accept are the opinions that use fear arguments of "rape", "criminality", "barbarian hordes" to propagate hatred etc.... In fact recently a refugee child was abused and killed by a "german", or crazy swedish nazi attacking with a sword students in a school.

4) "strict follower of islam deem anyone else as infidels". Where do you get all these strange ideas? There are millions of muslims who live peacefully in Europe.
If you consider ISIS, Daech as "strict followers" then you are wrong. Like fascist don't represent Europe, they don't represent muslims.

5) Anyone propagating hate speeches among the refugees should be denied asylum.

6) my experience with refugees in Switzerland is mainly with syrian and iraqi families that I help with some translation in Geneva & Lausanne. So far I haven't heard from them hate or racism...they just want a better future for their children. But maybe it's a small sample to draw conclusions.
1) At the moment there is nothing stemming the flow. How do you propose to limit it? A fence maybe to start?
2) I agree, but with a limit. The EU is not responsible nor can handle to accept every refugee in the world. And how do you send back the economic migrants? In France and UK, IIRC, less than half of those are actually sent back, the rest just disappear into society.
4-6) There's plenty of reports about migrant ethnic groups fighting with each other already in the refugee camps. Despite most Muslims being peaceful, there is a problem with Islamic extremism in the ME (in case you haven't noticed). So say hypothetically, even if only 10% of the migrants hold extremist views, there's expected to be about 1 million migrants this year coming to Germany, so 10% of that is 100,000 people. And if even only 10% of them are radical enough to get violent about it, that's still 10,000 people. That's enough to be concerned about. There's plenty of reports about German authorities being concerned about it. They would be idiots if they weren't. Here's one:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/10/28...with-refugees/
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  #1306  
Old 31.10.2015, 18:03
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Finally, they've got it all figured out:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34683056

"A senior Bavarian politician said that under the agreement, 50 migrants an hour could cross into the state at the five agreed points."

"...Austria was receiving 11,000 people a day just at the Spielfeld crossing from Slovenia."
Hah, less than a month since...

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In a month's time, they will likely hold the same position Orban held at the beginning of it.
If true.... so has Orban been vindicated? How is what they are doing different from what Orban was doing? In fact, Orban was processing more than this.

Don't they owe Orban and the Visigrad states an apology?

Last edited by Phos; 31.10.2015 at 18:19.
  #1307  
Old 31.10.2015, 18:15
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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.....EU is making more for the migrants from other continents than for the people they represent.
Double standard policies are just life facts, I know, but accepting everything without questioning is cowardice, to put it mildly.
Maybe Eastern Europeans are not whining, crying and screaming loud enough, and maybe they need a story of how they are sad and pathetic victims of greedy capitalists. You know, something that can make leftists feel good and heroic about themselves. Maybe get more suntanned and take photos. They dig that kind of stuff.
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  #1308  
Old 31.10.2015, 19:12
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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LOL, what kinds of questions are these? Should I send you my "credentials"? A CV that lists all my experiences with Muslim people and a copy of my passport bearing stamps to Arabic lands? FWIW I have been to a few Arabic countries and have known and worked with several Muslim people. Do I qualify to converse on the topic with you now?
It was in no way a question on your "credentials"...everyone can have an opinion and share it on an internet forum. it could be that some posters here are dogs behind a computer screen. I wanted just to understand where your perception of muslims in general comes from. You mentioned that "true muslims" consider others as "infidels" and this surprised me as it does not match the reality I am faced with. Let's close it.

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1) At the moment there is nothing stemming the flow. How do you propose to limit it? A fence maybe to start?
2) I agree, but with a limit. The EU is not responsible nor can handle to accept every refugee in the world. And how do you send back the economic migrants? In France and UK, IIRC, less than half of those are actually sent back, the rest just disappear into society.
4-6) There's plenty of reports about migrant ethnic groups fighting with each other already in the refugee camps. Despite most Muslims being peaceful, there is a problem with Islamic extremism in the ME (in case you haven't noticed). So say hypothetically, even if only 10% of the migrants hold extremist views, there's expected to be about 1 million migrants this year coming to Germany, so 10% of that is 100,000 people. And if even only 10% of them are radical enough to get violent about it, that's still 10,000 people. That's enough to be concerned about. There's plenty of reports about German authorities being concerned about it. They would be idiots if they weren't. Here's one:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/10/28...with-refugees/
fights in a camp with extreme conditions (overcrowded, cold, promiscuity etc...) happen everywhere and it has nothing to do with ethnic backgrounds. If you put tired people under pressure and extreme conditions they will fight. They are like any other human.
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  #1309  
Old 31.10.2015, 20:05
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Not sure using an Apartheid-like-system is a good example to start with.





Do you think this fear is justified? Do you share it?

Double-standards are the norm. Israel could be treated like a pariah state for many reason but it isn't. Another example - ethnic Poles in Germany were devoid of their ethnic minority rights in the 30ies, and these haven't been yet restored under some pretenses.
How can Germany have the holier-than-thou attitude if they treat the others as second class if it it is convenient for them?

Fear - nations yes, individuals no. Do I want a large scale experiment? No.
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Old 31.10.2015, 20:45
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Fear - nations yes, individuals no. Do I want a large scale experiment? No.
I don't fear nations, nor individuals (OK, only some of them). But definitely don't want a large scale experiment.

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2) I agree, but with a limit. The EU is not responsible nor can handle to accept every refugee in the world. And how do you send back the economic migrants? In France and UK, IIRC, less than half of those are actually sent back, the rest just disappear into society.
Germany takes great care to send back the Balkanese refugees - in 2005 they made sure they sent back 50 000 people to Kosovo, Macedonia etc, all after 10 years and with kids that considered themselves Germans... But hey, shh..
  #1311  
Old 31.10.2015, 21:07
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

There's definetly a large minority in switzerland of econmic migrants who are here to avoid taxes and claim benefits, but I'm pretty sure they're not coming from the middle east. How should we handle them? their lives are not in danger, if they go back to their native countries they might have to pay more tax, it's not like they'll be lynched for belonging to the wrong party.
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Old 31.10.2015, 21:15
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Germany takes great care to send back the Balkanese refugees - in 2005 they made sure they sent back 50 000 people to Kosovo, Macedonia etc, all after 10 years and with kids that considered themselves Germans... But hey, shh..
Maybe back then. Not anymore.

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2014 wurden in Deutschland etwa 200.000 Anträge auf Asyl gestellt, zwei Drittel von ihnen wurden abgelehnt. Abgeschoben wurden von Januar bis November vorigen Jahres jedoch nur etwas mehr als 10.000 Personen.
Translation: In 2014 about 200'000 people applied for asylum in Germany. Two thirds of those applications were rejected. However from January to November of the same year only a little more than 10'000 people were deported.

Source: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/i...-13601134.html
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Old 31.10.2015, 21:38
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How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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There's definetly a large minority in switzerland of econmic migrants who are here to avoid taxes and claim benefits, but I'm pretty sure they're not coming from the middle east. How should we handle them? their lives are not in danger, if they go back to their native countries they might have to pay more tax, it's not like they'll be lynched for belonging to the wrong party.

Just honor the contract.
But It looks like James Schwarzenbach times aren't over yet.
  #1314  
Old 31.10.2015, 22:31
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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fights in a camp with extreme conditions (overcrowded, cold, promiscuity etc...) happen everywhere and it has nothing to do with ethnic backgrounds. If you put tired people under pressure and extreme conditions they will fight. They are like any other human.
I guess you misunderstood. I was talking about clashes between ethnic/religious groups. The Middle East and surrounding area is a giant bar brawl, and as the migrants flow in the EU, they are bringing it with them. AFAIK, hatred based on religious or ethnic grounds is contrary to EU laws and values (racism?).

Yet Germany is welcoming these people And if they are deemed to have come from an unsafe country that qualifies for refugee status (eg. Syria), then how do you send these hateful, racist migrants back? I don't think think you can. So Germany is in effect stuck with them.

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Rainer Wendt, another German police union official, said violence between groups of illegal migrants in German hostels is common. “We‘ve been seeing this violence for weeks and even months,” Wendt reported. “Groups join forces based on ethnicity, religion or clan structures and attack each other with knives and even weapons they have made themselves.” He explained that “Sunnis fight Shiites, there are Salafists of varying kinds… Women are being forced to wear veils. Men are forced to pray. Islamists want to impose their values.”


“I think housing separated according to religion makes perfect sense,” Radek told Die Welt. German police reported that 14 people were injured in two separate clashes that erupted between refugees last Sunday at a temporary migrant shelter in Kassel-Calden in northern Germany. On Thursday evening the week before, a fight broke out among some 200 Syrian and Afghan refugees wielding table legs and slats at a shelter in Leipzig. “They attacked each other with clubs and threw things at each other,” a police spokesman reported, according to the Independent.


Read more at https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/5...l9Ymoc2DHo0.99
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A mass brawl has erupted at a tented camp for migrants in Germany, with Albanians and Pakistanis fighting each other with sticks and irritant sprays.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34380438


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A brawl has taken place between Afghan and Albanian migrants at an intake center for migrants in Hamburg.
http://www.dw.com/en/massive-brawl-r...urg/a-18765187



But of course, fights also break out between individuals simply because the migrant camps are over-crowded, as you say, we are all human. But yet Germany allows the influx to continue unabated? Is it humane for Germany to shove more people in the already over-crowded facilities? Shipping them to other EU countries isn't realistic, because the other EU countries didn't invite them, and migrants don't want to go there anyway. The only solution is to restrict in the influx. But last I checked Merkel's "there is no upper limit" remark still seems valid.
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Old 01.11.2015, 00:28
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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ethnic Poles in Germany were devoid of their ethnic minority rights in the 30ies, and these haven't been yet restored under some pretenses.
I would love to learn more about that... I don't find anything in German but it might be censorship. Do you mean a different ethnic group than the Sorben in Lausitz? Genuine question, no irony, no judgment.
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Old 01.11.2015, 01:27
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I would love to learn more about that... I don't find anything in German but it might be censorship. Do you mean a different ethnic group than the Sorben in Lausitz? Genuine question, no irony, no judgment.

From the section "Geschichte" on:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polen_in_Deutschland
  #1317  
Old 01.11.2015, 02:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Maybe back then. Not anymore.



Translation: In 2014 about 200'000 people applied for asylum in Germany. Two thirds of those applications were rejected. However from January to November of the same year only a little more than 10'000 people were deported.

Source: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/i...-13601134.html
They will do it this time around too. Their asylum applications are rejected right from the start, so they will be sent back. (as their countries are considered to be safe)
http://www.thelocal.de/20150930/germ...igrants-faster
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.ph...0&nav_id=95032
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Old 01.11.2015, 12:40
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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They will do it this time around too. Their asylum applications are rejected right from the start, so they will be sent back. (as their countries are considered to be safe)
http://www.thelocal.de/20150930/germ...igrants-faster
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.ph...0&nav_id=95032
As long as it makes economic sense for people to go to Germany and Sweden despite all laws to the contrary they will do so. The solution is to remove the economic incentive.

There is no evidence that Germany or any other EU country has ever managed to repatriate the majority of failed asylum seekers from any country or can you provide that ??

EDIT A couple of years ago there was a debate about bunches of Roma heading to France and that causing an outcry as they did what they always do in terms of crime etc , so they were each given a couple thousand euro and sent back home... where they did the logical thing and caught the next bus back to France on the reasonable assumption of getting another couple of thousand euro....
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Old 01.11.2015, 13:48
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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As long as it makes economic sense for people to go to Germany and Sweden despite all laws to the contrary they will do so. The solution is to remove the economic incentive.

There is no evidence that Germany or any other EU country has ever managed to repatriate the majority of failed asylum seekers from any country or can you provide that ??

EDIT A couple of years ago there was a debate about bunches of Roma heading to France and that causing an outcry as they did what they always do in terms of crime etc , so they were each given a couple thousand euro and sent back home... where they did the logical thing and caught the next bus back to France on the reasonable assumption of getting another couple of thousand euro....
No, but have seen some documentary from a German tv about gypsies from Serbia, Macedonia etc being deported even though they apparently have integrated in the German society.
Anyway, no, I don't have any proof that Germany actually sends anyone back home.
I agree that the incentives should be cut off or drastically reduced as they would only help perpetuate and even intensify the phenomenon.
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Old 01.11.2015, 13:58
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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This is all BS and historical revisionism the only genocides the jews suffered from took place in eastern europe and germany. Stating like Netanyahu that the final solution was not Hitler's idea but the Mufti's idea is plain stupidity that was condemned by all serious historians including the ones from Yad Vashem.
The conclusion is that Netanyahu and ppl like you hate palestinians more than they hate nazis. The terrorism is also part of the Israeli system: fascist settlers (burning mosques and babies) are protected by the system.

What can you expect from a chicken$h!t psychopath who is both a crook and a liar?
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