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Old 08.11.2015, 20:31
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

There was a news snippet in the Postauto buses that Ikea is starting to hire asylum seekers. I can't say much about Ikea in Europe, but Ikea had a huge labor dispute in Vancouver over the terms of the work contracts. I hope it's in good faith that they want to hire them.

Found the news in Blick, which cites NZZ within the article.

http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/ans...id4154892.html
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Old 08.11.2015, 20:36
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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That doesn't qualify as policy for a government, that's PR. What exactly would have been better to do facing the non negociable fact that immigrants were on their way before Merkel said anything?
First of all, there were laws in place. It should have been upheld and followed. Instead, Merkel unilaterally voided it.

In regards to truth and honesty, it should be a basic principle of a legitimate government, not a PR stunt. They need to communicate a clear picture of what immigrants should expect in Germany. They allowed misconceptions about free houses, free cars and free money to go on unchallenged. They really should be honest to the German population. Instead, they perpetuated stories about quick integration, economic benefits and rapid deportations.

Merkel should also have assessed what Germany is capable of, and then plan a program to handle this in a lawful and orderly manner. By overriding laws and processes, she created this chaos she claims can't be stopped. Like I said, German capabilities does not match its grandiosity. I think there is a good chance Germany is headed towards a constitutional crisis.

They also should have a written social contract with immigrants, stipulating what is expected of them, especially in regards to respect of others, especially the role of women in German society, and how German values supercede their cultural traditions. I believe such social contracts were previously used for immigrants, but I haven't heard if they are still in use today.
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  #1443  
Old 08.11.2015, 20:42
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

In other words, you disagree that Merkel only stated the obvious: the laws in place all over Europe about asylum. Then I am condemned to let you talk among yourselves on the axioms you agree on. Have fun.
  #1444  
Old 08.11.2015, 20:53
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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In other words, you disagree that Merkel only stated the obvious: the laws in place all over Europe about asylum. Then I am condemned to let you talk among yourselves on the axioms you agree on. Have fun.

AFAIK the laws are: no unauthorized entry, registration of asylum seekers in the first state of entry. What of these laws are upheld? And that granting asylum is state's sovereign decision. All else is fluid. I'm all for helping the most needy. I've sorted the list of countries/regions by infant mortality rate and overall premature deaths and support these causes.
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Old 08.11.2015, 21:30
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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In other words, you disagree that Merkel only stated the obvious: the laws in place all over Europe about asylum. Then I am condemned to let you talk among yourselves on the axioms you agree on. Have fun.
As a government official, you would expect she would follow due process to address short comings in existing laws to adjust them, not flounce on them like a frustrated teenager when they don't suit her situation. She demonstrated herself to be above the law. It brings to light that you have a huge gaping loophole in your constitution that allows a sitting chancellor to rule by subjective sentiments. She is free to now implement a police state in Germany, or through mob rule. Watch how Germany deals with dissenters about this, and tell me if you really believe Germany tolerates freedom of thought and speech, practices democracy and respects pluralism.
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  #1446  
Old 08.11.2015, 21:31
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I read 7 years by some studies. The head of Bayer cites 15 years for a refugee to become economically self-sufficient:
http://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/news/...t-6543280.html

Wir schaffen das? Ehhh, maybe for a few, but obviously not in the foreseeable future for most. Maybe with the next generation? That is a different lifetime altogether. May even be in the next century.
That's exactly the problem - for those who actually WANT to integrate you might have some luck but for the vast majority they will be on the fringes and likely enter into crime or at best be dependent on the state indefinitely. That's just storing up problems for generations to come and is economic and societal suicide.
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  #1447  
Old 08.11.2015, 23:56
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

"Fördern" und "Fordern" - carrot and stick. I think there should be some Swiss-like policy which strives maintaining a mix of all social layers and avoiding ghettos in their city planning; forced early schooling like in Vaud - obligatory 2 year kindergarten. Tying social help to work willingness. Social help in form of free schooling and education, food stamps, not money - to not punish children. Lower total cost of employment to encourage employment, e.g. a requirement when bidding for state orders. Family reunification conditional on income - as is already. Same about spouses and kids - no different than today's L permit, isn't it? Maybe minimum quotas at employers - like quotas for minorities on US universities. And deportation of criminal offenders - heck, it is not a bureaucratic discretion, there is a court decision. A ramp down of subsidies for long term unemployed, change to food stumps etc, and integration into state run jobs, and deportation if no integration in long term.
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  #1448  
Old 09.11.2015, 00:21
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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That's exactly the problem - for those who actually WANT to integrate you might have some luck but for the vast majority they will be on the fringes and likely enter into crime or at best be dependent on the state indefinitely. That's just storing up problems for generations to come and is economic and societal suicide.
"Nach sieben Jahren bringen Flüchtlinge dem Staat Geld"
("The refugees will bring the state money within seven years")
Marcel Fratzscher, head of German Institute for Economic Research (DIW) in Berlin is debunking the myth of the migrants being a long-term burden and a drain on the German welfare state.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/20393380
  #1449  
Old 09.11.2015, 00:56
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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That's exactly the problem - for those who actually WANT to integrate you might have some luck but for the vast majority they will be on the fringes and likely enter into crime or at best be dependent on the state indefinitely. That's just storing up problems for generations to come and is economic and societal suicide.
Well, if Syria becomes a normal place again (however one may define normal, let's not discuss this here), then the state does not have to continue considering them and treating them as refugees.
Thus they will stop receiving state subsidies and at that point Germany can make one last chivalrous act: pay their plane tickets back home.

On the other hand, people who after this period (let's say at least 4 years until Syria is normal) have found jobs will have no issue staying, as so many other non-European ex-pats.

Another side note here, Germany has way more new non-European ex-pats than I ever met in Switzerland. In Switzerland most or all non-Europeans I met had arrived years ago, with the exceptions being young people who came here as students. On the other hand Germany is still handing out working visas to Americans, Australians, Indians, Armenians, Canadians, Indonesians and Ukrainians (all these are nationalities of people who started at my company this year arriving straight from their country after having sent their CV and been selected).
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  #1450  
Old 09.11.2015, 10:04
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

The return of Tebuerculosis in Germany: When Migrants become Patients.

Teachers Union warns German girls about having sex with "young, often uneducated Muslims"
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  #1451  
Old 09.11.2015, 11:08
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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“The opportunity is for refugees to not only fill the gap, but as we know every person who finds a job and pays taxes makes a contribution to economic productivity and output. We will see that the benefits will outweigh the costs within five to 10 years. This is not me being an optimist, I’m just looking wider than this myopic, short-term perspective, that in the long run, refugees will be a net gain for the economy.”
Fratzscher admitted there were many unknowns, such as how many refugees would arrive and how quickly they could be integrated into society, which revolved around the key tasks of learning German, finding housing and gaining qualifications.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...economist-says

I've noticed there are two "groups" of people supporting the idea of unlimited migration: 1) the extreme Left, who act primarily on emotion and want to open their borders completely to "save the world", without really thinking it through, and 2) the business leaders (extreme Right?) who act on zero emotion and see a cheap labor force and "increased growth" for their companies based on their forecast models.

It's kind of funny to see these two groups supporting each other to bring more migrants to Germany
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:32
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...economist-says

I've noticed there are two "groups" of people supporting the idea of unlimited migration: 1) the extreme Left, who act primarily on emotion and want to open their borders completely to "save the world", without really thinking it through, and 2) the business leaders (extreme Right?) who act on zero emotion and see a cheap labor force and "increased growth" for their companies based on their forecast models.

It's kind of funny to see these two groups supporting each other to bring more migrants to Germany
Last time the extreme left forged an alliance with big business interests it was called Fascism.
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  #1453  
Old 09.11.2015, 11:37
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Interesting debate going on in Germany these last few weeks.

Apparently some Pegida demonstrators carried an effigy of Merkal at the gallows. The picture actually shows a guillotine but bless the Gutmensch Presse for not knowing the difference. This has led to an outcry of the leftist establishment, you know, the very same people who pulled all the levers in their power to provoke to the utmost back in 1968. And guess what. They not only think the concept of their great leader danging at the gallows/guillotine to be beyond the pale, but they actually want the people who did this to be prosecuted, you know, for instigating violence in thought against the person of the almighty Merkel.

Meanwhile in Britain, in Lewes, a Guy Fawkes was burnt showing a nude David Cameron having oral sex with a a pig. People had a good chuckle and I haven't heard of any legal proceedings against the perpetrators.

What was that about freedom of speech again? What was that about Germany being on the moral high ground?
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:44
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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What was that about freedom of speech again?
You did learn in school that this is a cultural issue. Freedom of speech is not limitless on the European continent. You are free to disagree together with non-continentals.
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:50
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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You did learn in school that this is a cultural issue. Freedom of speech is not limitless on the European continent. You are free to disagree together with non-continentals.
A country that thinks its OK not to have freedom of speech shouldn't be giving lessons in citizenship to a country that does. And it shouldn't be using the word tolerance because where there is no freedom of speech there can never be meaningful tolerance. Nuff said.
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:50
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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... You are free to disagree together with non-continentals.
but not with continentals
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  #1457  
Old 09.11.2015, 11:52
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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A country that thinks its OK not to have freedom of speech shouldn't be giving lessons in citizenship to a country that does. And it shouldn't be using the word tolerance because where there is no freedom of speech there can never be meaningful tolerance. Nuff said.
Tell that the anglo-american people who wrote the fundamental law of said country. You can't blame the Germans for learning their lesson.
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:53
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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but not with continentals


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Old 09.11.2015, 11:57
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Tell that the anglo-american people who wrote the fundamental law of said country. You can't blame the Germans for learning their lesson.
The anglo-americans forced Hitler to ban free speech?

What have you been smoking?
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Old 09.11.2015, 11:59
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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You did learn in school that this is a cultural issue. Freedom of speech is not limitless on the European continent. You are free to disagree together with non-continentals.

Interesting. It is interesting to watch how leftists deal with dissent. They would have anyone and everyone who doesn't agree to be isolated, labelled a hate-monger and fired. Even if there are thousands of them.

Dissenters are becoming more vocal, and German is fragmenting more and more. So the leftists are amplifying their rhetoric and threats. The De Maziere flub last Friday signalled something rotten in Berlin. Seems there are policies be held under ransom.

I've always known this about leftists. They purport to be proponents of human rights and their idea of fairness, but then will use governments and mobs to enforce their outlook on everybody, stifle free speech and free thinking. And this is something they accuse right-wingers of, but it is the mode of operation for leftist power. They are mob extortionists. That is how the DDR, USSR and a host of other societies operated. It is all relative morality for them, and so they can't possible be wrong in their minds.

But it is all being recorded and is interesting to watch. You'll see it clearer for what it is in the future.
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