Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12.10.2015, 12:59
Dark Blue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 199
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 164 Times in 90 Posts
Dark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeable
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
About "Who benefits from this is a secondary question for me."
Actually it is the key question! If you know who benefits then you know who did it!


About " and condemn any kind of violence" It is hard to find English language quotes but here are some HDP examples.


Aug 8; Selahattin Demirtas, a charismatic former human rights lawyer who campaigned on a progressive platform that took the party beyond its roots in Kurdish nationalism, urged the PKK to "remove its finger from the trigger".

Sept 8th; Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP) Co-chair Selahattin Demirtaş called on Turks and Kurds to join forces to bring an end to the violence in Turkey and said that “peace will win at the end”


Sept 10;The following statement was released by the pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP) Foreign Affairs Commission on Sept. 10, urging international action against Turkey’s “politics of violence” against the Kurds. “We call on all democratic international institutions and forces to take concrete steps against the Turkish state’s violent, anti-democratic actions against its own people and citizens,”


Sept 12 "
The party emphasized that HDP is not a part of these violence-based, war- oriented policies, nor did it take part in any decision-making process of the war. “On the contrary, we are trying to push both PKK and the Turkish state to end this armed conflict. It should be known that it is the AKP who is insisting on war politics and implementing anti- democratic practices all over the country”,
Marton, it is not that I disagree with the importance of who did it. IS, PKK,AKP there will be always some crazy who would want to explode themselves in the name of whatever they believe in or even just because they are crazy. Think about the shooter in Denmark. One man killed over 70 people. Yes, we have to find out who did this terrible event.

But we have system which was supposed to protect us against these kind of events and that system failed miserably at their home. Till we find out who organized the bombing we have to focus on who didn't stop it.

As per the Demirtas, there is big difference between the rhetorik and the actions. They didn't say anything against PKK when they declared self determination in eastern cities. Last week, when one of the protestors who was digging trenches, was killed in a barbarian way;Demirtas condemn the action and swore for revenge. why was he not against those trenches in the first place.

Also, as you have quoted they have always complained abut the "politics of violence" against Kurdish, but guess what we leftist Turks are also suffering from violence. We also died in Gezi and also in Ankara.When he speaks only for the Kurds, how do we differentiate us from racist parties.

I wanted to see HDP as the fighter of democracy, freedom and equality for every citizen not just some group only.

Anyways, I think that is a mission /role I wanted HDP to have and they have never intended to. That is why I use the term disappointment from my end.

Last edited by Dark Blue; 12.10.2015 at 13:15.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12.10.2015, 14:15
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
... Yes, we have to find out who did this terrible event.

But we have system which was supposed to protect us against these kind of events and that system failed miserably at their home. Till we find out who organized the bombing we have to focus on who didn't stop it.
At some point, it becomes irrelevant who actually did it. The problem there are the conditions where such events benefit the position of one side or another. For example, it can be attributed to some group to strengthen a tougher action against them, yet was not at all committed by said group. In such a situation, they can spin and theorise all they want, while so many people are already dead.

What is more disconcerting is the spread of such things outward from the conflict zones. Its crept up now to Turkey, which has had such a healthy amount of cosmopolitanism and pluralism. I would hate to see it creep up to Germany. Mind you, all parties involved here have representation in Europe, and we are starting to see small skirmishes between them.

There are no signs of any of this abating, and every kind of sign this is spreading, maybe to a city near you. And i don't think Angela Merkel weighed this risk out in her actions. She probably will blame someone else for it later. But she sure has put more urgency into finding a solution to those problems. Except, any such solution will not be coming from here.
__________________
exceptio probat regulam
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 12.10.2015, 15:33
lorena1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 644
Groaned at 51 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 563 Times in 313 Posts
lorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Here is what Demirtas had to say in response to pm Davudoglu's statement from yesterday. Apparently Turkey is blocking the airing of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8W_WT5KDk

A news source claims one of the suicide bombers could have been the brother of the Suruc bomber from July, which killed 33 people.
From Aljazeera: ISIL appears to be attacking the Turkish state for turning its back after a couple of years of what many view as tacit support, and the Kurds for their stout fighting in northern Syria. If its objective is to weaken its enemies and create chaos, it's succeeding. After Suruc, the PKK quickly struck the state, killing two police officers and sparking the tit-for-tat battle that continues today. As a consequence, ISIL is free to do its bidding and Turkey is less stable.That last attack went so well, ISIL might have thought: Let's do it again - but bigger this time, and during a tense election campaign. Turkey's leaders seem to have taken the bait. Both Erdogan and Davutoglu have portrayed it as an "attack on our unity".

On the other hand, there is a growing suspicion that the Deep State was responsible for the massacre.

Last edited by lorena1; 12.10.2015 at 16:08. Reason: BBC & NyTimes Link
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lorena1 for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 12.10.2015, 16:23
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Here is what Demirtas had to say in response to pm Davudoglu's statement from yesterday. Apparently Turkey is blocking the airing of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8W_WT5KDk

A news source claims one of the suicide bombers could have been the brother of the Suruc bomber from July, which killed 33 people.
From Aljazeera: ISIL appears to be attacking the Turkish state for turning its back after a couple of years of what many view as tacit support, and the Kurds for their stout fighting in northern Syria. If its objective is to weaken its enemies and create chaos, it's succeeding. After Suruc, the PKK quickly struck the state, killing two police officers and sparking the tit-for-tat battle that continues today. As a consequence, ISIL is free to do its bidding and Turkey is less stable.That last attack went so well, ISIL might have thought: Let's do it again - but bigger this time, and during a tense election campaign. Turkey's leaders seem to have taken the bait. Both Erdogan and Davutoglu have portrayed it as an "attack on our unity".

On the other hand, there is a growing suspicion that the Deep State was responsible for the massacre.

Thanks, masterly speech by Demirtas; hope he lives to see success.


Both Erdogan and Davutoglu have failed to explain why no terrorist group has claimed responsibility for any of these bombings; usually ISIS ( & PKK) grab every opportunity for PR.


Seems the Govt. has abandoned their bizarre claim that one of the suicide bombers was identified by his fingerprints (as the brother of another bomber); they are now talking about checking the bombers DNA. Really not one word is believable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:29
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
At some point, it becomes irrelevant who actually did it. The problem there are the conditions where such events benefit the position of one side or another. For example, it can be attributed to some group to strengthen a tougher action against them, yet was not at all committed by said group. In such a situation, they can spin and theorise all they want, while so many people are already dead.

What is more disconcerting is the spread of such things outward from the conflict zones. Its crept up now to Turkey, which has had such a healthy amount of cosmopolitanism and pluralism. I would hate to see it creep up to Germany. Mind you, all parties involved here have representation in Europe, and we are starting to see small skirmishes between them.

There are no signs of any of this abating, and every kind of sign this is spreading, maybe to a city near you. And i don't think Angela Merkel weighed this risk out in her actions. She probably will blame someone else for it later. But she sure has put more urgency into finding a solution to those problems. Except, any such solution will not be coming from here.

About "At some point, it becomes irrelevant who actually did it. "


And " Its crept up now to Turkey.."


You do realise these two sentences are contradictory? If we do not know who did it then we cannot claim it had anything to do with the conflict zones!


For example, some people claim it was done by Govt. supporters to get more votes for the AKP party in the November election. In that scenario there is certainly no connection with the conflict zones.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:34
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
About "At some point, it becomes irrelevant who actually did it. "

And " Its crept up now to Turkey.."

You do realise these two sentences are contradictory? If we do not know who did it then we cannot claim it had anything to do with the conflict zones!

For example, some people claim it was done by Govt. supporters to get more votes for the AKP party in the November election. In that scenario there is certainly no connection with the conflict zones.
The problem is that there are situations that get to the level of tension that any action can light a fuse. This is one of them. When that fuse is lit, it starts a chain reaction where it no longer matters who lit the fuse. It's a bit like the Reichstag fire being blamed on Jews.

The focus should be to de-escalate the tension. Finding responsible parties may be misleading and actually lead to more of these.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:39
Dark Blue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 199
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 164 Times in 90 Posts
Dark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeable
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
...For example, some people claim it was done by Govt. supporters to get more votes for the AKP party in the November election. In that scenario there is certainly no connection with the conflict zones.
Who do you think they would use in such a scenario? My guess would be one of their guys in IS or in PKK.

Do you really believe that we can ever find out who is behind it beyond the usual pawns?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
The problem is that there are situations that get to the level of tension that any action can light a fuse. This is one of them. When that fuse is lit, it starts a chain reaction where it no longer matters who lit the fuse. It's a bit like the Reichstag fire being blamed on Jews.

The focus should be to de-escalate the tension. Finding responsible parties may be misleading and actually lead to more of these.

Of course it matters who lit the fuse; hopefully they will eventually face justice.


You wrote " It's a bit like the Reichstag fire being blamed on Jews.
" So you are drawing a parallel with Erdogan blaming terrorists?
And in the case you quote many Nazis did eventually have to face justice.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:46
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Of course it matters who lit the fuse; hopefully they will eventually face justice.


You wrote " It's a bit like the Reichstag fire being blamed on Jews.
" So you are drawing a parallel with Erdogan blaming terrorists?
And in the case you quote many Nazis did eventually have to face justice.
What followed from the Reichstag fire was Kristallnacht, the Nuremburg trials were way further down after they lost.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:48
Dark Blue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 199
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 164 Times in 90 Posts
Dark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeableDark Blue is considered knowledgeable
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Of course it matters who lit the fuse; hopefully they will eventually face justice.


You wrote " It's a bit like the Reichstag fire being blamed on Jews.
" So you are drawing a parallel with Erdogan blaming terrorists?
And in the case you quote many Nazis did eventually have to face justice.
after millions of deaths, yes some of them faced the justice and some not... grass and elephants...

Let's assume we found out who is actually behind this. I am sure you are also following the people's reaction to this bombings. There are still millions of citizens/idiots who think those who are dead now had deserved it.

In short, even if you prove who set this up. They will not be punished for it.

Point in case, the recordings of the government corruption did not change anything...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dark Blue for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 12.10.2015, 17:48
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Who do you think they would use in such a scenario? My guess would be one of their guys in IS or in PKK.

Do you really believe that we can ever find out who is behind it beyond the usual pawns?


Eventually the truth emerges from written records or deathbed confessions or from other people involved who decide to reveal all.


Look at WikiLeaks or Snowden; once more than a couple of people are involved then the truth will emerge sooner or later.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 12.10.2015, 18:28
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Who do you think they would use in such a scenario? My guess would be one of their guys in IS or in PKK.

Do you really believe that we can ever find out who is behind it beyond the usual pawns?

About "Who do you think they would use in such a scenario? " Well basically anybody who thought that murdering some Kurds would be a fast route to Heaven and martyr's benefits.


Certainly there are many candidates
Plenty of Turks fighting in ISIS.
Then the people who destroyed HDP offices across Turkey
Also many people in the Turkish police and military who seem to have no problem firing live rounds at peaceful protestors.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12.10.2015, 18:32
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
Certainly there are many candidates
Plenty of Turks fighting in ISIS.
Then the people who destroyed HDP offices across Turkey
Also many people in the Turkish police and military who seem to have no problem firing live rounds at peaceful protestors.
Any plenty of opportunities to misdirect public rage to justify some desired drastic measure in return.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12.10.2015, 18:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,318
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

In this day and age, anyone attending political demonstrations should be aware of these types of dangers happening.

After having imported this huge Trojan Horse into Europe - who knows what will happen anywhere?

I`d stay far away from mobs dancing and waving flags in cities.

Heard the "Trojan Horse" comment from an aspiring politician and rather think it quite appropriate description of current affairs in Europe.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 12.10.2015, 19:12
lorena1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 644
Groaned at 51 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 563 Times in 313 Posts
lorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Death toll is now at 130.

It has been reported that some of the victims were HDP activists and the party's candidates for the November election. (FT)


There are no satisfactory answers, as yet, and there may never be.
The government on Monday pointed to Isis as the most likely culprit, and said authorities were close to identifying one of the bombers. It had previously mentioned the banned Kurdistan Workers party, or PKK, as another possibility.
But some opposition figures, including the pro-Kurdish Peoples Democratic Party, or HDP, blame the government for at the very least failing to do enough to prevent the attack and, allegedly, taking a passive stance towards Isis. The jihadi group appears to be more focused on attacking Kurdish leftists — in Turkey as well as in Iraq and Syria — than engaging in a fight with the Turkish state.


Political parties have suspended this week's election rallies till Friday.

Meanwhile more and more victims are being identified. Among the victims were 11 members of a provincial youth branch of the CHP.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lorena1 for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 12.10.2015, 20:43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: Ankara blasts

its sad! but great to see that they are resolving their issues on their own soil.
I feel bad for all those young souls...
Reply With Quote
This user groans at bigfujitsu for this post:
  #37  
Old 12.10.2015, 22:16
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Nutters coming out from under their tinfoil hats.


The possibility that the attack was carried out by ISIL is strong, but it is actually foreign intelligence services that are behind the attack,” Ercan Taştekin, the director of the Ankara-based Research Center for Security Strategies (GÜSAM), told Today's Zaman.
According to Laçiner, who is also an analyst in international relations, it could be Iranian, Russian, Syrian or Western powers behind the attack."


"could be Iranian, Russian, Syrian or Western powers" that really narrows it down!


I also liked "Following the same line of reasoning, the West, particularly the US, which is known to have fought hard to include Turkey in the fight against ISIL, could also be behind the attack. “The West may have thought: ‘If Turkey perceives ISIL as a real threat, then it will fight against ISIL more strongly',” Laçiner said."
So the idea is that ISIS bombed Turkey to convince Turkey to fight ISIS harder.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 14.10.2015, 17:04
lorena1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 644
Groaned at 51 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 563 Times in 313 Posts
lorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond reputelorena1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

News is circulating that the two suicide bombers have been identified. They are allegedly ISIS members.
The prosecutor's office in Anakara has issued gag orders on the investigation.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 14.10.2015, 19:44
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

Quote:
View Post
News is circulating that the two suicide bombers have been identified. They are allegedly ISIS members.
The prosecutor's office in Anakara has issued gag orders on the investigation.
Careless of the bombers to carry their membership cards

Turkey’s opposition parties have mobilized to have the country’s national assembly involved in the investigation of the Oct. 10 Ankara double suicide bombing which killed at least 97 people, while they have particularly underlined the failure of the current caretaker of the interim government, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), to thoroughly investigate the bomb attacks which took place in southeastern Diyarbakır and Suruç earlier this year.

Dubbing the Oct. 10 attack as one of “the bloodiest massacres in the country’s history,” a group of lawmakers from the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) filed a motion to parliament on Oct. 14, appealing for the opening of a parliamentary inquiry into the suicide bombing.

The Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP) also tabled a motion, with questions addressed to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu

Security warnings had been sent to embassies days before the rally, which was known to be crowded, but the authorities “declined to share” the same security warnings with the organization committee of the rally, HDP Deputy Parliamentary Group Chair Pervin Buldan said.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 14.10.2015, 20:24
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,549 Times in 4,685 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ankara blasts

According to some Turkish newspapers (as already posted) they claim to have identified the 2 suicide bombers as ISIS members. The police have also arrested 2 PKK members who allegedly predicted on social media that a terrorist attack would take place in Ankara.

It seems unlikely that these two organisations who are at war with each other would cooperate to bomb the peace rally??

Do people in Turkey really believe these stories?

Also an Istanbul criminal court of peace ruled on Oct. 14 for the release of Today’s Zaman editor-in-chief Bülent Keneş, who was under arrest on charges of 'defaming President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.'
This "crime" carries a jail sentence of up to 4 years

Last edited by marton; 14.10.2015 at 23:31.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kiss-In participants in Ankara attacked Wollishofener International affairs/politics 5 27.05.2013 22:45
3 Bomb blasts in Mumbai .... Again borntough International affairs/politics 21 26.02.2013 23:50
US blasts Bern over underage prostitution The Local Swiss news via The Local 15 27.06.2012 22:47
fatal blasts hits jakarta swissotter International affairs/politics 4 17.07.2009 12:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0