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Old 17.11.2015, 14:43
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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After being wrong about Egypt, Libya & other middle eastern issues, perhaps reconsider posting about Syria ?

Assad's forces kill plenty of civilans, and probably didn't develop the ability to "easily distinguish fighters from civilians". They did develop some interesting torture techniques - that didn't stop them from losing battles to "immature and unskilled fighters"

Gaza and West Bank comes to my mind
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Old 17.11.2015, 14:56
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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It tells a lot on someone who reveals the content of private messages. Especially when the purpose is to show him on his good side and create some ganging up on the other person by the same group of people.
Nonsense, you're just naturally embarrassed that he revealed your abusive language and that everyone now knows how you articulate yourself when you think no-one will see it. Do yourself a favour and assume that no PM on a public forum sent to people you do not know or trust is ever truly private.
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Old 17.11.2015, 14:57
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

agreed, but we need consistency from Moderators re deleting.
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  #544  
Old 17.11.2015, 15:06
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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Ok help us here. What do you want a "moderate" Muslim to do?

Give a list, point by point what 2 billions people of this planets should do to make the others happy.

What more 2 billions people can do to say that they are not what these, let's make it at, 50 000 bat crap crazy extremists *uckers?
I think that's exactly the problem - as the numbers in the following graphic show - taken from the Pew institute and wikipedia source - Islam seems to have several HUNDRED MILLION (conservative estimate) batshit crazy (by Western value standards) adherents :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Realistically you CANNOT integrate such people in any Western society.
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:09
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

So you think only Muslim kill in the name of religion ,think again




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:13
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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So you think only Muslim kill in the name of religion ,think again




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
No of course not - where did you get that from my post ??? But no other religion or even cohort of people I am CERTAIN have such a high proportion of people that think those who would convert from their way of thinking/religion deserve the death penalty!!!


EDIT: It also goes some way towards explaining the level of bloodshed between Sunni and Shia Muslims - basically if you disagree with their point of view (regardless of how close you might be) you deserve to die. Sorry but the lie that it's only a tiny minority who hold those "extreme" views has to be thoroughly exposed.
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:19
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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I think that's exactly the problem - as the numbers in the following graphic show - taken from the Pew institute and wikipedia source - Islam seems to have several HUNDRED MILLION (conservative estimate) batshit crazy (by Western value standards) adherents :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Realistically you CANNOT integrate such people in any Western society.
Totally agree. This is like Cosa Rostra tactics to keeping everyone in line. And anything that cause doubts in the faith, then "you sleep with the fishes". So there may have been a time and place for it, but it does not fit in the West today.

To be fair, I think you have to start somewhere. And this is where "moderate" Muslims could really help humanity. Instead of carrying over practices from there to here, "moderate" Muslims have a golden opportunity to carry over a better approach to living from here to there. In this, they already have a head start on both side. They just need to stand up and say it.

I think the term "moderate" is still useless. In fact, they should get radical about this effort to modernise Islam. What they have right now is an opportunity to help shape and define an expression of Islam that is born out of the West. A Western flavour of Islam. Hopefully, without all the cruel vestiges carried over from the old. Tradition is tradion, religion is religion, and God is God. These three are not all mutually inclusive.

I think the better term for "moderate" Muslim is Westernised Muslims or Modernised Muslim.

But..... LOL. What was I thinking?
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:20
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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no of course not - where did you get that from my post ??? but no other religion or even cohort of people i am certain have such a high proportion of people that think those who would convert from their way of thinking/religion deserve the death penalty!!!


Edit: It also goes some way towards explaining the level of bloodshed between sunni and shia muslims - basically if you disagree with their point of view (regardless of how close you might be) you deserve to die. Sorry but the lie that it's only a tiny minority who hold those "extreme" views has to be thoroughly exposed.


no
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:32
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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Totally agree. This is like Cosa Rostra tactics to keeping everyone in line. And anything that cause doubts in the faith, then "you sleep with the fishes". So there may have been a time and place for it, but it does not fit in the West today.

To be fair, I think you have to start somewhere. And this is where "moderate" Muslims could really help humanity. Instead of carrying over practices from there to here, "moderate" Muslims have a golden opportunity to carry over a better approach to living from here to there. In this, they already have a head start on both side. They just need to stand up and say it.
Very hard/impossible to do when the least deviation from the clerics line is punishable by death.

If anyone else was following the last Pakistani election you realise what you are up against - this is not a tiny minority - this is a large proportion of the population who are by Western standards crazy lunatics :

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/06...ins-elections/
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:34
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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So you think only Muslim kill in the name of religion ,think again




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
The scales are somewhat different.
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  #551  
Old 17.11.2015, 15:34
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Trying to get back on topic: ISIS fighters are usually not very brave and achieve military successes only against very weak opponents. In the west they also targeted the weakest civilians.Just because they can edit youtube videos and use powerpoint does'nt make them an enemy which will be hard to beat.

With Drones and bombimg ISIS can be made to keep it's head down. The west will not send many ground troops (Iraq made sure of that) - it's up to the local Arabs to defeat ISIS, probably in the usual arab way of massacring the opponents (See other arab civil wars).

France is moving towards more surveillance (Hollande made it clear in his speach), The European Arabs can help by isolating terrosists.

The Imam of Drancy (paris) is giving a positive example - as usual, Not-so-moderate Muslims attacked him.
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Old 17.11.2015, 15:48
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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Trying to get back on topic: ISIS fighters are usually not very brave and achieve military successes only against very weak opponents. In the west they also targeted the weakest civilians.Just because they can edit youtube videos and use powerpoint does'nt make them an enemy which will be hard to beat.

With Drones and bombimg ISIS can be made to keep it's head down. The west will not send many ground troops (Iraq made sure of that) - it's up to the local Arabs to defeat ISIS, probably in the usual arab way of massacring the opponents (See other arab civil wars).

France is moving towards more surveillance (Hollande made it clear in his speach), The European Arabs can help by isolating terrosists.

The Imam of Drancy (paris) is giving a positive example - as usual, Not-so-moderate Muslims attacked him.




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“They want you to fear them. They want you to get angry. They want all of us to become hostile and here is why:
“ISIL’s strategy is to split the world into two camps. It is that black and white. Again we know this because they told us.”
Ally said ISIL wanted to create World War III, and for societies around the world to turn on each other, and for countries like Australia to vilify Muslims.
He said this “evil organisation” believes if they can make Muslims the enemy of the West, then Muslims in France and England and America and here in Australia will have nowhere to turn but to ISIL.
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  #553  
Old 17.11.2015, 16:32
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

A friend from the UK shared this, and as I have bad knees and am older, like him, I thought I'd share:

My knees don't work like they used to do, arthritis will do that, but you know after the events in Paris, I could almost be glad because it means that I cannot engage in the type of knee jerk reaction that many have done over the last few days.

I don't mean those showing sympathy or support, I mean those who have all the answers including turning Britain into something resembling feudal Japan, where even ship wreck survivors were to be put to death if they had the bad luck to be foreigners!

I mean those who are content to follow the comments of a media that seems to be becoming more right wing with every passing day.

I mean those who criticise those whom they call do-gooders without seemingly stopping to consider what the alternative is.

I mean those who don't want justice, they want revenge, it might be understandable in some ways, but that doesn't mean it's the right way to go, especially if you consider how few facts that we have as yet.

I have said already that I don't have answers, but I do have friends of different religions or none at all, friends of different nationalities, different coloured skin, different political views, they didn't become friends because I happened to approve of any of these features of them and they certainly won't become my enemies because of them either.
To do that IS to let terrorists gain a victory, it is to let me become like them, I've never had the highest opinion of myself, but it's better that that, and if that makes me a do-gooder, so be it!


A nice man that Jim.
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Old 17.11.2015, 16:44
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

I agree - The ISIS terrorists are weak. Once they are deprived of the protection their close environment gives them, they will be exposed and stopped. Exposing ISIS from within will greatly enhance the standing of the muslim population in western countries.
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Old 17.11.2015, 16:53
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Did we have this news in here already?:
Putin Reveals ISIS Funded by 40 Countries, Including G20 Members.

“I provided examples based on our data on the financing of different Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) units by private individuals. This money, as we have established, comes from 40 countries and, there are some of the G20 members among them,” Putin told reporters.
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/put...eXkgHmrztkR.99
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Old 17.11.2015, 17:01
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Dear Donald Trump is very proud to have the answer to all this, of course if the French civilians were allowed to carry guns, as in the USA- none of this would have happened. and I actually know some people who can't wait for him to be elected
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Old 17.11.2015, 17:04
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:

“They want you to fear them. They want you to get angry. They want all of us to become hostile and here is why:
“ISIL’s strategy is to split the world into two camps. It is that black and white. Again we know this because they told us.”
Ally said ISIL wanted to create World War III, and for societies around the world to turn on each other, and for countries like Australia to vilify Muslims.
He said this “evil organisation” believes if they can make Muslims the enemy of the West, then Muslims in France and England and America and here in Australia will have nowhere to turn but to ISIL."


Exactly (though he didn't mention making the West the enemy of Muslims, obviously part of the strategy that has been succeeding. Even for Muslims born in the West) . ISIS aim is to push the muslim world into a position where they can either accept western values, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc - or accept their own religion as prescribed in the holy book. Death may come with either choice, going to heaven is a different story.

If ISIS achieves this aim, will they (the muslim non-extremists, lol) cast off 1600 years of tradition, culture, family, law, etc. just to live in Europe? To be able to embrace the freedoms that they largely don't agree with anyway? Which will they choose?

Last edited by pilatus1; 17.11.2015 at 17:19.
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  #558  
Old 17.11.2015, 17:04
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Looks like Russia have taken my advice to heart, getting their big strategic bombers involved over Syria for the first time now.

http://theaviationist.com/2015/11/17...syria-air-war/
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  #559  
Old 17.11.2015, 17:17
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

France made "unusual appeal to EU collective defence article"
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c66a...a1dfede9b.html

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For EU officials preparing an emergency meeting of interior ministers on Friday to respond to the terrorist attacks in Paris, one thing stood out as unexpected in President François Hollande’s address to national legislators: his invocation of Article 42.7 of the EU treaty.
The article, which officials believe has never been used before, says that all EU countries have “an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power” to any member that is the “victim of armed aggression”.
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Old 17.11.2015, 17:55
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Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

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France made "unusual appeal to EU collective defence article"
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c66a...a1dfede9b.html
Oh thats great. I bet Merkel thought they will be able to sit this out and pretend to be innocent and angelic. They ought to make sure the Germans are at the front line of this.
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