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  #61  
Old 08.12.2015, 19:49
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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I wonder how this compares to the PS statistics?

I guess it means the FN has displaced the PS as the party of the working class.

Of course the spin doctors of the PS are tying to pass this off as working-class = stupid moron.

I bet their remaining working class voters love that.

Of course, the EU question is at the forefront of many people's minds. The FN is not really a single issue party, and neither are voters. Couldn't a black Muslim man, feeling a strong emotional allegiance to France, vote in favor of French nationality through FN? Of he could, and I'm sure it occurs.
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  #62  
Old 08.12.2015, 20:04
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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Of course, the EU question is at the forefront of many people's minds. The FN is not really a single issue party, and neither are voters. Couldn't a black Muslim man, feeling a strong emotional allegiance to France, vote in favor of French nationality through FN? Of he could, and I'm sure it occurs.
There are plenty, and not just voters but members and elected politicians. This guy for example was one of daddy Le Pen's earliest political buddies. He left the party because his line was closer to daddy's than that of his daughter.



(Stephane Durbec)

According to this article there are thousands like him

http://suffrage-universel.be/fr/fnnoirs.htm
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  #63  
Old 08.12.2015, 20:13
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

Also, don't forget that Len Pen senior is buddies with the French muslim comedian Dieudonné, who all the other parties shun for crossing too many lines. Dieudonné even gave standup comedy shows at FN events and reportedly attended Le Pen's 87th birthday party. Unfortunately, though, some of his jokes are antisemitic in nature. This is one of the reasons Marine is trying to keep her dad at arm's length.



Le Pen also claims he was the first French party leader to nominate a muslim candidate for election in France back in 1957. And the first to have a muslim woman elected to the Ile de France regional council in 1986.

http://www.non-stop-zapping.com/actu...er-un-arabe-et

Doesn't exactly look like a single issue party to me.
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  #64  
Old 08.12.2015, 20:17
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

In the US, immigrants make up some of its most patriotic and nationalistic voters. Because they know what the country represents compared to the rest of the world where they came from, when they are honest.
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  #65  
Old 08.12.2015, 20:19
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

As for Marion Maréchal-Le Pen being a neo-Nazi, well her father was an Israeli Mossad agent.

France needs more bare tits!
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  #66  
Old 08.12.2015, 20:28
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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France needs more bare tits!
Here you go:



Not sure if they're in France, though.
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  #67  
Old 08.12.2015, 21:06
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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Here you go:
...
Not sure if they're in France, though.
Not just any tits. Particularly Marianne's tits, A.K.A. Liberty, featured prominently in Delacroix's "Liberty leading the people", the Statue of Liberty, and the Great Seal of the French Republic. She's a French national symbol representing Liberty and Reason, often with bare tits.

This is Marianne in the French Senate:


And here is Marion Marechal Le Pen in the age of the Internet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6gP2GFGdA

Vive la Liberte! Vive la France!
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  #68  
Old 08.12.2015, 21:16
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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Not just any tits.
They're not just any tits.

They're great tits.
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  #69  
Old 08.12.2015, 22:03
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

Anyway, can anyone explain what the fear and hysteria of FN winning an election is about? These are just regional elections. What do you see occurring when they win, and why is it bad?

Personally, there are some traditional French things I just happen to adore, like bare tits. But I don't really understand what the fear of FN is all about. Will the French suddenly goose-step around and call for a Kristallnacht? I find that hard to imagine.
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  #70  
Old 08.12.2015, 22:07
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

I wonder how much clientelism is present in French politics - how many gov't posts, state companies, institutions, subsidies etc depend on the winner. Is it a factor in the outcry?
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  #71  
Old 08.12.2015, 22:27
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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I wonder how much clientelism is present in French politics?
In the regions and departements, it's huge. I qualify it as a life style. At higher state level, things are more complex... it's also a way to secure people's career while keeping them ready for politics. Some see it as negative, others as positive.

But it's not about actual powers or future political but local decisions. It's about building up the necessary structure and support for presidential elections. And that matters a lot in France.

Furthermore, it will change the tone of the debate in the media. French media is largely intellectual based and led, so that means a lot of arguments about concept manipulation and fallacies all kinds of journalists, experts, people from the steeet and philosophers will throw at each other's face. Kind of funny for a while but it might become very dominant.
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  #72  
Old 08.12.2015, 22:43
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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It's a surprise that it's only 43% to me...
We just had young men, born in France, raised in France, who benefited from many social programs growing up, turning against their country and killing random people in the name of Islam. I would say that it's a clear clue that immigration from Muslim countries is a kind of an issue right now...
yeah lets generalize due to the 0.00001%....

so, you say, "born in France and raised in France but immigration is an issue"...doesnt make any sense or what do you mean?
or you confuse it with integration....most probably
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  #73  
Old 09.12.2015, 09:21
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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The article also says it was 1983.

A lot of things were different then.
Agreed (though he only started looking for a job in 1989). But social structures and codes take way longer than just a generation or two to fundamentally change.
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  #74  
Old 09.12.2015, 10:32
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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The article also says it was 1983.

A lot of things were different then.
How many non-French French (but white, Christian etc) are in top positions in French companies now?
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  #75  
Old 09.12.2015, 10:36
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

Indeed, in the UK there are NO private universities of any good reputation. Despite a few laws being passed in FRance recently to allow youngsters from underprivileged backgrounds to enter all those top private University Schools in France- the % is still very low- and the atmosphere of elitism is incredibly strong. One of our daughters attended a Business School in France- and just couldn't believe it.
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  #76  
Old 09.12.2015, 10:49
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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Indeed, in the UK there are NO private universities of any good reputation. Despite a few laws being passed in FRance recently to allow youngsters from underprivileged backgrounds to enter all those top private University Schools in France- the % is still very low- and the atmosphere of elitism is incredibly strong. One of our daughters attended a Business School in France- and just couldn't believe it.
But does this "elitism" have to do with racism, with money or with the feeling of belonging to some prestigious club (justified or not)?
I know state universities from back home where is the same type of atmosphere, although everyone can make it provided they pass the entrance exams and had obtained their matura with top grades.
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  #77  
Old 09.12.2015, 11:05
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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But does this "elitism" have to do with racism, with money or with the feeling of belonging to some prestigious club (justified or not)?
I know state universities from back home where is the same type of atmosphere, although everyone can make it provided they pass the entrance exams and had obtained their matura with top grades.
I agree.

I went to a French lycée for three years and several of my former classmates went the école preparatiore path and one or two of them went on to the grandes écoles. I have lost contact with them since so don't know where they are now.

From what I'm told it's very much a dog eats dog world up there. There is a brutal knockout system and everybody knows only a certain number can succeed - as in passing the end of year exam, and if you don't, you're out. Period. So nobody really seeks to help anybody else but everybody is trying to come out among those chosen few. This goes as far as pupils sabotaging one another's learning by stealing books, calculators and things.

So far from saying that in France you go to the top because you've got a rich daddy, I think there that you get to to the top because you have more pointed elbows than the next man. And in these schools, fencing is not a thing you do after hours in the fraternity, but its part of your education. You are literally required to attack your fellow pupils while your teachers look on and take notes. The French must think we Brits are right wimps. This is in my view the ultimate consequence of republican thinking. The people at the top need to deserve to be at the top and the playing field is open.

That's not to say having the right friends and family doesn't help to saome extent, but it can also harm you. Because in those circles everybody knows somebody who knows somebody else, there's not much you can hide when looking for a job afterwards. So if the teachers looked the other way because you had a rich daddy, the others are going to know that and you'll get that pretty diploma but not that nice job (unless daddy can fix that too). I'm not sure if the supposed racism that hit Thiam wasn't maybe that in reality?

In Britain, on the other hand, the old class system is still very much stronger and being able to play soggy biscuit gets you further than being able to outsmart your opponents at school.
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  #78  
Old 09.12.2015, 11:23
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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Face it - they dont integrate because THEY DO NOT WANT TO. They don't want your multiculuralism either - they just want your cash.
Could be said about many of us on this forum.
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  #79  
Old 09.12.2015, 14:24
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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That's not to say having the right friends and family doesn't help to saome extent, but it can also harm you. Because in those circles everybody knows somebody who knows somebody else, there's not much you can hide when looking for a job afterwards. So if the teachers looked the other way because you had a rich daddy, the others are going to know that and you'll get that pretty diploma but not that nice job (unless daddy can fix that too). I'm not sure if the supposed racism that hit Thiam wasn't maybe that in reality?
He definitely grew up in a priviledged position. But do you graduate with that years best results just because of your dad?
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  #80  
Old 09.12.2015, 15:04
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Re: French far right looking to lead the election

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He definitely grew up in a priviledged position. But do you graduate with that years best results just because of your dad?
Does the guy with the best grade ever struggle to find a job, even if he's a complete a**hole?

Methinks we're not hearing the whole story.
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