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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3041  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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= "I never read it, nor do I have any idea who John Pilger is".

Establishment to the end...
Maybe you should read it, he derides the "establishment"

The most effective propagandists of the "European ideal" have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even "cool". What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as "neoliberalism".

John Pilger is a highly respected world reporter, telling the other sides of the stories published in the right wing press.
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  #3042  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Maybe you should read it, he derides the "establishment"

The most effective propagandists of the "European ideal" have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even "cool". What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as "neoliberalism".

John Pilger is a highly respected world reporter, telling the other sides of the stories published in the right wing press.
I'm fully aware of who John Pilger is, thanks.
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  #3043  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't like spittle on my Gipfeli.
The metropolitan elite summed up in 7 words.
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  #3044  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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How can you say with no ability to reform the EU, when the EU now realises it needs reform? Hollande has openly said so, premier MEP's have said so. Other countries are calling for referendums, and the EU is basically petrified of the consequences.

If the Brexit is not a monumental catalyst for reform, then nothing ever will be. There have been many articles over the last few days: http://time.com/4383368/european-union-brexit-reform/ and also http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...deep-EU-reform

And accepting free movement does not equal the "same control as the EU had before", it refers to specific areas like free movement etc. There are lots of other areas of politics and law that the EU will no longer have influence over once we leave.
So you're saying that the Brexit vote really showed those Europeans, who are now open to revising aspects of the Union that the British (and now others) don't like, but now that the British have achieved that aim, they don't want any part of the possible benefits? Seems a little like nose-cutting to spite the face, no?
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  #3045  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Perhaps if the Remain side had spent more time explaining the benefits of being in the EU as opposed to calling Brexiters Nazi's they'd have won the vote.

(Just a thought - the one word you don't want to mention to 65+ year old is Nazi - they either remember the war, or remember post war - and it was miserable - and they blamed the Germans - who just happen to be a big player in the EU)
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  #3046  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Perhaps if the Remain side had spent more time explaining the benefits of being in the EU as opposed to calling Brexiters Nazi's they'd have won the vote.

(Just a thought - the one word you don't want to mention to 65+ year old is Nazi - they either remember the war, or remember post war - and it was miserable - and they blamed the Germans - who just happen to be a big player in the EU)
Surprisingly though, DC has had a good relationship with AM, fair and balanced approach.
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  #3047  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

An article on Child poverty in the Guardian this morning:

Number of UK children living in poverty jumps by 200,000 in a year.


The last two Summers in the UK, there have been loud warnings from local (here in Hampshire, where I am) and national charities at how looked-after children, who receive a free breakfast and lunch in schools during term time, are going without food during school holidays. Some very concerned Primary School Headteachers have even urged Councils to open school buildings/kitchens during holidays to feed children. I guess the councils can not cater for looked-after children in centers anymore, because they closed them. The UK Summer holidays are six weeks long.

The louder the cries, the quieter the response.
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  #3048  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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An article on Child poverty in the Guardian this morning:

Number of UK children living in poverty jumps by 200,000 in a year.


The last two Summers in the UK, there have been loud warnings from local (here in Hampshire, where I am) and national charities at how looked-after children, who receive a free breakfast and lunch in schools during term time, are going without food during school holidays. Some very concerned Primary School Headteachers have even urged Councils to open school buildings/kitchens during holidays to feed children. I guess the councils can not cater for looked-after children in centers anymore, because they closed them. The UK Summer holidays are six weeks long.

The louder the cries, the quieter the response.
This reminds me of another EU country where children are starving.
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  #3049  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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An article on Child poverty in the Guardian this morning
Agreed - and this is primarily due to a right-wing Tory government rather than EU membership. Voting Exit, which was mainly supported (in political circles) by righter-winger members of said Tory party will exasperate the problem. It's such a shame one of the opposition parties (well, umm, besides UKIP) e.g. Labour, didn't support Exit so that a vote to Exit would have also meant a win for them. Hey ho. The referendum was simply a Tory party power-game anyway, so "the elites"* took a huge gamble, lost, but stay in power to mitigate their personal losses at the expense of the people who voted Exit.

* It seems we do this now, to almost anyone who has a degree or lives in London.
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  #3050  
Old 29.06.2016, 13:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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= "I never read it, nor do I have any idea who John Pilger is".
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John Pilger is a highly respected world reporter, telling the other sides of the stories published in the right wing press.
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I'm fully aware of who John Pilger is, thanks.

You're a quick learner DB, thanks.
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  #3051  
Old 29.06.2016, 13:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You're a quick learner DB, thanks.
Clueless.
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  #3052  
Old 29.06.2016, 13:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You're a quick learner DB, thanks.
whhoooooooooooooosssssssssssssh
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  #3053  
Old 29.06.2016, 13:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I wonder what Remainers are actually trying to solve at this point. If anything, sounds like a cry for the status quo. But you see that status quo has not been working for many people. Why not take the opportunity to restructure the economy in a way that is fit for the UK? That is the payload of Brexit.

I don't know how one can claim to be progressive, yet yearn for the the status quo.
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  #3054  
Old 29.06.2016, 13:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But trust me - I've been to Sandbanks - and that just isn't the case.



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It's collective shock and disbelief, isn't it? "Everyone" expected a similar result to the Scottish referendum where all the noise was "leave" and yet when backs were to the wall, they stayed.


It wasn't all sound and fury signifying nothing this time.
Exactly. I'm still in shock, but what's making it worse for me personally, is that I'm now at loggerheads with friends who are campaigning for Corbyn to stay.

It's the most ridiculous state of affairs imaginable. When the future of the country has to come first, they're diverting their energies to the career of one man who is of dubious principles. I couldn't write this...
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  #3055  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now SNP want to be declared the official Opposition party in Parliament.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-36660386

Tell me, IF the SNP became the ruling party at Westminster do you think Sturgeon would stop banging on about Scottish independence?
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  #3056  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Curley, most just keep making the same statement. This is not unknown in Switzerland.


Many are making wholly incorrect assertions about their own political system. This is also not unknown in Switzerland.


Many haven't understood that while what you read on facebook may be appealing to them and have quotes, photos, and urls which support their own argument, facebook is no substitute for fact checking (I'm surprised that nobody has posted the picture of Farage as a punk in the '80s). The Swiss are not immune to straw manning the opposing view.


Many feel that for democracy to succeed that the best course of action is to (temporarily) rescind democracy or the rule of law. I don't think I've ever heard a Swiss express this sentiment.


The British are pissed off. I don't think the Swiss have ever experienced this kind of thing, and even if they were to, it probably wouldn't be followed on the word stage the way Brexit has been.
I'm not sure why we're still here arguing about Brexit as it's so evident no-one will ever change their opinions...or perceptions.
OK; so Brexit happens. It certainly won't be the end of the world, neither for UK, nor for the rest of plebs.
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  #3057  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

If Corbyn is such a man of honesty and prinicpals, As a "Pro Leave" while the majority of Labour MPs are "Pro Remain" he could:
1. Fire any MP who is disloyal and appoint a loyal comerade intead.
2. Use the methods his Friends & former employers in Iran to persuade wayward MPs to change their wicked ways.
3. Leave the Labour party - join an existing party (i.e Respect) or start a new one.
4. Stay in the Labour party as the most opposed leader in it's history.
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  #3058  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Now SNP want to be declared the official Opposition party in Parliament.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-36660386

Tell me, IF the SNP became the ruling party at Westminster do you think Sturgeon would stop banging on about Scottish independence?
I think they ought to put up candidates for English and Welsh seats at the next election.

It would certainly be interesting, whatever the outcome!
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  #3059  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If Corbyn is such a man of honesty and prinicpals, As a "Pro Leave" while the majority of Labour MPs are "Pro Remain" he could:
1. Fire any MP who is disloyal and appoint a loyal comerade intead.
2. Use the methods his Friends & former employers in Iran to persuade wayward MPs to change their wicked ways.
3. Leave the Labour party - join an existing party (i.e Respect) or start a new one.
4. Stay in the Labour party as the most opposed leader in it's history.
He is a man who feels mandated by the hundreds of thousands of Labour party members who put their trust and faith in him. The only way he will step down (and in his mind betray that trust) is if those same party members vote for another leader and thus relieve him of the massive responsibility that rests on his shoulders.

That is basically how Jeremy Corbyn thinks. As his biographer stated he doesn't care about PLP politics, making friends, being popular or anything like that. He only cares about his causes, so its not vanity or a hunger for power, just sheer bloody mindedness in standing up for the weak, oppressed etc..
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  #3060  
Old 29.06.2016, 14:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

People who have been hurting badly voted for Brexit

will it provide school places, and good quality school places at that ?
will it provide a better NHS ?
will it provide affordable housing ?
will it reverse the bedroom tax and cuts to the disabled ?

Will it? Really. Now who suffers from the above?

Champagne socialists? Really?

Clueless indeed.
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