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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3221  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You did not read the link did you?
I certainly hope you're not surprised - it's not the first and highly unlikely to be the last time.
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  #3222  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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May also launched her bid this morning.
May has a solid approach:

"Brexit is Brexit"
"No attempts to remain or re-enter"
"No second referendum"
"No general election until 2020"
"No Article 50 until the British negotiating strategy is agreed and clear. No Article 50 until at least next year"
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  #3223  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"No Article 50 until the British negotiating strategy is agreed and clear. "
Does that mean that the leavers did a whole campaign with no idea about what they actually want to achieve with the EU when they leave? Genuine question, no sarcasm here.
I actually gave the leavers more credit than that, I was convinced they knew what they wanted and would be happy to start getting it the day after the vote.
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  #3224  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Does that mean that the leavers did a whole campaign with no idea about what they actually want to achieve with the EU when they leave? Genuine question, no sarcasm here.
I actually gave the leavers more credit than that, I was convinced they knew what they wanted and would be happy to start getting it the day after the vote.
Not at all. i'm sure many had there own ideas. The operating word here is "agreed and clear".
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  #3225  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

An aside to this thread, Regular life goes on in UK, e.g.

Tuesday 5th July 2016, there is a (NUT) National Union of Teachers Strike

for the day
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  #3226  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the first paragraph in the first link "Since Friday, however, the tune has changed and he [Obama] assured the special relationship between the countries hasnít suffered. He hasnít mentioned queues (a British word that raised suspicions it was a Remain campaign plant) since.
This is untrue; The White House has restated its position that Britain would be at the back of the queue when it comes to making trade deals with the US, in the wake of the Brexit vote.
out of interest, who is in the queue at the moment ? do we have anyone we can bribe to let us push in ? or maybe we can pay homeless person to queue for us like people do for Apple's latest gizmo release days ?
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  #3227  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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out of interest, who is in the queue at the moment ? do we have anyone we can bribe to let us push in ? or maybe we can pay homeless person to queue for us like people do for Apple's latest gizmo release days ?
Hmn, Not sure of the order, but my guess would be

Canada, Mexico, China, EU, big gap, Russia

Seeing as you already have close ties to the EU, try offering them some money.
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  #3228  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not at all. i'm sure many had there own ideas. The operating word here is "agreed and clear".
So they knew in an disagreed and unclear way. OK, I take your word for it. Coordinating positions is key here, the smarter move is to do it before the vote, but it's never too late. Good luck to them.
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  #3229  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the first paragraph in the first link "Since Friday, however, the tune has changed and he [Obama] assured the special relationship between the countries hasnít suffered. He hasnít mentioned queues (a British word that raised suspicions it was a Remain campaign plant) since.
This is untrue; The White House has restated its position that Britain would be at the back of the queue when it comes to making trade deals with the US, in the wake of the Brexit vote.
Source
He refers to Obama. The link refers to a Whitehouse spokesman.

So they are both true.

Clearly Obama has not re-iterated and instead has left a spokesman to 'maintain face'.

Let's see how things go. I would expect that the UK could conclude a deal with the US faster than the EU could.
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  #3230  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Did not see that coming - BJ not running for PM.
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  #3231  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

BoJo Out! Phew!
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  #3232  
Old 30.06.2016, 13:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris just said he will not stand for PM. Smart man, and a very wise decision. Like I said, he is better suited providing ideological support in the background. Perhaps another day.


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So they knew in an disagreed and unclear way. OK, I take your word for it. Coordinating positions is key here, the smarter move is to do it before the vote, but it's never too late. Good luck to them.
A referendum is a binary Yes/No decision that is used for direction to take. It rarely if ever contains actual instructions for implementation.
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  #3233  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

WTF, Johnson has withdrawn his leadership bid! http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...eadership-bids

Massive GOve / May plot methinks. May will be the next PM.
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  #3234  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A referendum is a binary Yes/No decision that is used for direction to take. It rarely if ever contains actual instructions for implementation.
You are so right. See SVP/UDC/PPS initiatives.
I belong to the "cool" Europeans who can wait for the internal crisis in the UK to be settled because there is no negotiations to be had with a bunch of people still in shock.
That being said, I would be very disappointed if this little game ended up with UK getting back through the window what voters just threw out of the door. Disappointed is an understatement, I'm trying to be British about it.

P.S. I'm getting better at using passive voice in English, aren't I?
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  #3235  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So they knew in an disagreed and unclear way. OK, I take your word for it. Coordinating positions is key here, the smarter move is to do it before the vote, but it's never too late. Good luck to them.
not necessarily.

If you have different groups all being in favour of an exit but having different views of what to do after, it may be better to team together for the vote and then work the small stuff out after rather than vice versa.

It's like having a discussion at home

1) shall we repaint the living room?
2) what colour?

If you discuss point 2 before point 1 you may get lost in bitching and nothing will ever happen.

And remember the Brexit camp had a broad range of support going from the extreme left all the way to the extreme right with lots of support from the middle too. All of those groups had different reasons to want a Brexit so nobody would have been able to speak on behalf of them all.
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  #3236  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You are so right. See SVP/UDC/PPS initiatives.
I belong to the "cool" Europeans who can wait for the internal crisis in the UK to be settle because there is no negotiations to be had with a bunch of people still in shock.
That being said, I would be very disappointed if this little game ended up with UK getting back through the window what voters just threw out of the door. Disappointed is an understatement, I'm trying to be British about it.
Ja, ja! Soothe yourself!
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  #3237  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Did not see that coming - BJ not running for PM.
Several commentators, including a couple in this thread, suggested that, canny as he is, this would not be the right time for him. He doesn't actually want us to leave the EU, for example, but having spearheaded the leave campaign would have been expected to push in that direction, whereas sitting on the sidelines for now he can let someone take over the unenviable task of leading a government who've publicly committed to honouring the referendum outcome but have no real desire or intention to actually leave the EU.

Quite possibly he may be thinking of pushing for a properly renegotiated EU membership package, which if it succeeds would vindicate the whole leave campaign and put him in a strong position to take all the credit, while if it fails he wouldn't be the one taking the blame. Leave that to the sacrificial lamb in the shape of Michael Gove.
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  #3238  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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WTF, Johnson has withdrawn his leadership bid! http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...eadership-bids

Massive GOve / May plot methinks. May will be the next PM.
Not surprising to me, he is goofy, but not an idiot.

Not a big fan of conspiracy theories myself.
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  #3239  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Ah well JW - here it is in a nutshell- as shared on FB:

"So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.
Clear?"
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  #3240  
Old 30.06.2016, 14:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Several commentators, including a couple in this thread, suggested that, canny as he is, this would not be the flight time for him. He doesn't actually want us to leave the EU, for example, but having spearheaded the leave campaign would have been expected to push in that direction, whereas sitting on the sidelines for now he can let someone take over the unenviable task of leading a government who've publicly committed to honouring the referendum outcome but have no real desire or intention to actually leave the EU.

Quite possibly he may be thinking of pushing for a properly renegotiated EU membership package, which if it succeeds would vindicate the whole leave campaign and put him in a strong position to take all the credit, while if it fails he wouldn't be the one taking the blame. Leave that to the sacrificial lamb in the shape of Michael Gove.
ditto. he never wanted to leave, he wants to be PM and he's playing it perfectly. whoever is PM now has an impossible mandate where the people want what the country doesnt need and wont (I would say) implement. He has moved from being "the mayor" though up to being the next prime minister in waiting after whoever takes on this bag of shit that will be handling the next few years. boris will take a top job now, Home Sec, Foreign Sec, something like that and will be in prime position to slip into the drivers seat once Gove or May pass the baton, which could easily happen at hte next election if labour do something sensible for once (like get David Miliband back in) and then win in 2020. Boris's time then in 2025.
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