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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3301  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Heseltine on Boris, too nice ba half:

Lord Heseltine told BBC Radio Five Live: "I have never seen anything like it. He's ripped the Tory party apart, he has created the greatest constitutional crisis in peacetime in my life.

"He's knocked billions off his value of the savings of the British people. He's like a general who marches his army to the sound of the guns and the moment he sees the battleground he abandons it.

"I have never seen anything like it and he must be answerable for the consequences. But the pain of it will be felt by all of us and, if it doesn't get resolved shortly, by a generation yet to come."
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  #3302  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Anyway a huge political mistake by Boris. He should have stood anyway just for appearances. Maybe he was scared he might win by accident again!
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  #3303  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

When the new PM steps in, the question of Brexit would have been a foregone conclusion. There will be no more questions to Brexit or not. The discussions will be around firming up a clear and agreed upon exit strategy.

They should also kickoff as many trade deal negotiations with as many non-EU countries as they can now. The more they score these, the more leverage they have going through the process, and the calmer it will get.
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  #3304  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

If anyone knows about ripping the Tory party apart, it is the backstabbing Brutus that is Michael Heseltine.
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  #3305  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Granted, but that's assuming no-one can see further than their own garden gate.

I would hope that when push came to shove, people can see further, once their children are fed, warm and safe of course.

most voters vote for whats best (or perceived best) for them personally
promise them more money (at the expense of others) and they will vote for it
more job - yes please
cheaper fags - where do I sign
better nhs - well I smoke, drink, eat shit and watch TV all day, I'm gonna need the nhs, big fat yes from me

they read the sun / daily mail (the posh ones) and believe 100% what they say, its pretty scary just how easy it is to manipulate the general population
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  #3306  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If anyone knows about ripping the Tory party apart, it is the backstabbing Brutus that is Michael Heseltine.
But he is a brilliant mace swinger.
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  #3307  
Old 30.06.2016, 18:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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When the new PM steps in, the question of Brexit would have been a foregone conclusion. There will be no more questions to Brexit or not. The discussions will be around firming up a clear and agreed upon exit strategy.

They should also kickoff as many trade deal negotiations with as many non-EU countries as they can now. The more they score these, the more leverage they have going through the process, and the calmer it will get.
Yes, I was wondering about this too. You could build up the negotiation capability and try to get as many done as possible before triggering a50. Of course, the problem is that any deals struck could only be implemented after the UK leaves the EU.

Plus you only have a 2 year window to get these other deals done (assuming you want to close the EU deal within the remaining 2 years of the parliamentary term).
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  #3308  
Old 30.06.2016, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, I was wondering about this too. You could build up the negotiation capability and try to get as many done as possible before triggering a50. Of course, the problem is that any deals struck could only be implemented after the UK leaves the EU.

Plus you only have a 2 year window to get these other deals done (assuming you want to close the EU deal within the remaining 2 years of the parliamentary term).

Which is fine. But showing full intent and momentum in that direction still counts for something. They can create agreements that trigger upon completion of the Article 50 process. I would also go after markets particular EU members are lusting for.

The UK needs to act, talk and walk like the world class hustlers they are, and they'll come out of this much better than staying in the EU. This is European leadership, I tell you, and it would inspire other EU prisoners.

Boris can still help convey this vision from the sidelines, which is more important for the UK than him sitting in the PM chair.
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  #3309  
Old 30.06.2016, 19:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Michael Heseltine talking about Boris Johnson

'There will be a profound sense of dismay and frankly contempt. He's ripped the party apart. He's created the greatest constitutional crisis of modern times. He knocked billions off the value of the nation's savings. He's like a general who leads his army to the sound of guns and at the sight of the battlefield abandoned the field. I have never seen so contemptible and irresponsible a situation. He must live with the shame of what he has done.'
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  #3310  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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most voters vote for whats best (or perceived best) for them personally
promise them more money (at the expense of others) and they will vote for it
more job - yes please
cheaper fags - where do I sign
better nhs - well I smoke, drink, eat shit and watch TV all day, I'm gonna need the nhs, big fat yes from me

they read the sun / daily mail (the posh ones) and believe 100% what they say, its pretty scary just how easy it is to manipulate the general population
Front page of The Sun, Thursday, June 23, 2016

BeLEAVE in Britain
YOU CAN FREE UK
FROM CLUTCHES
OF THE EU TODAY

Picture of World Globe with UK and Sun shinning out above it
INDEPENDENCE
DAY


The Sun Says, Today you can make history - by winning
Britain's independence from the crushing
might of the Brussels machine.
We urge you to vote Leave . . . and
make today our Independence Day
For many of us it will be the first vote
continued on Page Four
BRITAIN'S RESURGENCE

Decision Time Pages 4 to 11
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  #3311  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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When the new PM steps in, the question of Brexit would have been a foregone conclusion. There will be no more questions to Brexit or not. The discussions will be around firming up a clear and agreed upon exit strategy.

They should also kickoff as many trade deal negotiations with as many non-EU countries as they can now. The more they score these, the more leverage they have going through the process, and the calmer it will get.
"The question of Brexit would have been a foregone conclusion." au contraire, you really do not understand the process do you? Now Cameron has stepped away nobody has the authority to make any decisions or draw any conclusions before the new PM is in place.
Hopefully some civil service mandarins will draw up options for the new PM to study but he is not obliged to accept any.

"They should also kickoff as many trade deal negotiations.... " Typically these take 4 to 5 years or longer; of course if UK lies on the floor and accepts all the demands from the other partners then it would be quicker but not better.
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  #3312  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Michael Heseltine talking about Boris Johnson

'There will be a profound sense of dismay and frankly contempt. He's ripped the party apart. He's created the greatest constitutional crisis of modern times. He knocked billions off the value of the nation's savings. He's like a general who leads his army to the sound of guns and at the sight of the battlefield abandoned the field. I have never seen so contemptible and irresponsible a situation. He must live with the shame of what he has done.'
Probably the first time in my life I agreed with Michael Heseltine.

But now Boris is a world figure; he can wander around worldwide giving speeches for five figures payments plus expenses with no stress and no pressure to make any decisions.

Last edited by marton; 30.06.2016 at 20:26.
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  #3313  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The plan will happen in the background.

Life will go on as normal throughout the process.
"The plan will happen in the background. " in the background? LOL! Please remind me who was complaining about the EU
  • Non democratic decision making
  • Meetings behind closed doors
  • Non transparent activities

Do you know the expression "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire"?

This is turning from a slow motion train crash into a classical Greek tragedy.

And as for Boris, there is another expression "I'm alright Jack"!!
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  #3314  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Front page of The Sun, Thursday, June 23, 2016

BeLEAVE in Britain
YOU CAN FREE UK
FROM CLUTCHES
OF THE EU TODAY

Picture of World Globe with UK and Sun shinning out above it
INDEPENDENCE
DAY


The Sun Says, Today you can make history - by winning
Britain's independence from the crushing
might of the Brussels machine.
We urge you to vote Leave . . . and
make today our Independence Day
For many of us it will be the first vote
continued on Page Four
BRITAIN'S RESURGENCE

Decision Time Pages 4 to 11
"For many of us it will be the first vote" Sad but true; there is a neglected duty of voters to do some research on what you vote for and try to see through the associated political spin
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  #3315  
Old 30.06.2016, 20:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"For many of us it will be the first vote" Sad but true; there is a neglected duty of voters to do some research on what you vote for and try to see through the associated political spin
We are all responsible for the lies we choose to believe, most particularly those which require a willful effort. Optimism is excusable, tolerance is honourable, sheer stupidity is just sheer stupidity.
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  #3316  
Old 30.06.2016, 21:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This is precisely why it's going to take some strong leadership, as in someone who can bring different points of view together and build a coalition on consensus rather than alienating potential allies.

The big question though is whether such a person can emerge and win the leadership contest.
May seems to be strong (although there's something strange about such a vocal Remain supporter benefitting from the outcome of the Leave campaign). I'd rather IDS enters the fray though.

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Anyway a huge political mistake by Boris. He should have stood anyway just for appearances. Maybe he was scared he might win by accident again!
To what extent did Lady Macbeth's leaked email contribute to his decision?
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  #3317  
Old 30.06.2016, 21:25
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The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

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May seems to be strong (although there's something strange about such a vocal Remain supporter benefitting from the outcome of the Leave campaign)
The majority of the cabinet voted remain, that's a lot of talent to ignore. Anyway assuming the new PM won't try and reverse the decision, why should a remainer fight any less hard for a good deal than a brexiteer? If anything they will probably receive a warmer welcome in Brussels and have more cordial dialogue with their counterparts (Farage's petulant outburst springs to mind)
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  #3318  
Old 30.06.2016, 21:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"The question of Brexit would have been a foregone conclusion." au contraire, you really do not understand the process do you? Now Cameron has stepped away nobody has the authority to make any decisions or draw any conclusions before the new PM is in place.
Hopefully some civil service mandarins will draw up options for the new PM to study but he is not obliged to accept any.
What does that mean, Camron will be twiddling his tumbs until October and entire GB is disabled and adrift?!
The guy has a job to do and the people told him in which direction ..... whether he likes it or not. And if he thinks the job should be tailored to his wishes rather than the other way around he should leave immediately, no? An entire country can't go "on holidays".

I'm just imagining our 7 Bundesräte would just drop their penciles when we decide something they don't like and tell us, they'll leave in 4 months .... in the mean time Swiss politics is not happening. LOL
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  #3319  
Old 30.06.2016, 21:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Farage, Gove and Johnson just put up their Brexit plan ...

Read all about it ... http://thebrexitplan.com/
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  #3320  
Old 30.06.2016, 21:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Farage, Gove and Johnson just put up their Brexit plan ...

Read all about it ... http://thebrexitplan.com/
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