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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3701  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't see any Brexit leaders exercising this dynamism, either, to be honest.
They are already on a campaign to line up international trade deals. They are already designing competitive corporate taxation. If you actually heard what Brexit campaigners have been saying, they've already been putting forth a vision of a dynamic, onward looking UK. But of course you likely did not notice or ignored these.
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  #3702  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Voters wanted to maintain their culture as they saw it without manipulation from disconnected foreign overlords. Even this was a smart vote I would support.
So they want to maintain their culture ...

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Brexit offered more dynamism than remaining with the status quo of the EU. Choosing that dynamism over the EU is not an ignorant and uneducated choice. I realise many are struggling with this thought. But it is not the Brexit voters who are struggling with it.
... and also voted for more dynamism than the status quo??

Good lord, it usually take a few pages of nonsense before you contradict yourself. Now, its just a few posts apart.

Phos, you're slipping ...
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  #3703  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So they want to maintain their culture ...

... and also voted for more dynamism than the status quo??

Good lord, it usually take a few pages of nonsense before you contradict yourself. Now, its just a few posts apart.

Phos, you're slipping ...
That is the gist of the problem with the EU. They've interlocked economy with culture and offer a value proposition where you can have only one or the other. Totally unnecessary and unviable. You can have a good economy without sacrificing your culture at their altars.
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  #3704  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They are already on a campaign to line up international trade deals. They are already designing competitive corporate taxation. If you actually heard what Brexit campaigners have been saying, they've already been putting forth a vision of a dynamic, onward looking UK. But of course you likely did not notice or ignored these.
In a way the UK is a bit like someone who has hit their thumb with a hammer: It hurts, and they don't like the look of it, but if you heat up a paperclip the pain will soon go away. The nail will look a bit funny for a while, but it will grow back.

Blaming the Hammer, and being terrified of the paperclip are perfectly normal examples of human behaviour.
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  #3705  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In a way the UK is a bit like someone who has hit their thumb with a hammer: It hurts, and they don't like the look of it, but if you heat up a paperclip the pain will soon go away. The nail will look a bit funny for a while, but it will grow back.

Blaming the Hammer, and being terrified of the paperclip are perfectly normal examples of human behaviour.

At the moment, the UK is like an employee who has felt under appreciated by his employer, so he gave them notice he is leaving. He had an overbearing micromanaging boss. When he gave notice, his boss said "I'll make sure you don't work in this town again". Except this employee held a fifth of the accounts of the firm.

If you were to look at the moaning remainers, you'd think this employee got drunk somewhere, banging his head with his fist, and talking to invisible friends. You'd think this employee is schizoid, by the reaction of remainers.

I suggest this employee get a grip of himself, take medication for the schizophrenia if he has to, line up his rolodex, network, take his life seriously, and work on lining up his next gig.
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  #3706  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Latest tweet from @Brexit

#sailingtotheazores dorset5 tested and online. still problems with dorset3.
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  #3707  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In a way the UK is a bit like someone who has hit their thumb with a hammer: It hurts, and they don't like the look of it, but if you heat up a paperclip the pain will soon go away. The nail will look a bit funny for a while, but it will grow back.

Blaming the Hammer, and being terrified of the paperclip are perfectly normal examples of human behaviour.
That's an accident you just used as an analogy. People do not usually get outraged by their thumbs and start hitting themselves there with a hammer.

Populism is clever. It is not an accident.
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  #3708  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's an accident you just used as an analogy. People do not usually get outraged by their thumbs and start hitting themselves there with a hammer.
I was thinking more of the state of affairs after the impact.

It is generally the case, people aim at something other than their thumb - at least initially.

They also sometimes ignore people who quietly say "Careful, there is a Carburettor in there.", or "Shouldn't we pull the fuse first?"
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  #3709  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So they want to maintain their culture ...



... and also voted for more dynamism than the status quo??

Good lord, it usually take a few pages of nonsense before you contradict yourself. Now, its just a few posts apart.

Phos, you're slipping ...
Britain has always been a nation with a global outlook.


I'm not sure how Phos would be contradicting himself to say that removing ourself from a Euro-centric world view and opening ourselves up to a global world view (with almost every other continental block expanding more rapidly than the EU in terms of economy - dynamic, eh!) is a good thing.


Can you explain?
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  #3710  
Old 05.07.2016, 13:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's an accident you just used as an analogy. People do not usually get outraged by their thumbs and start hitting themselves there with a hammer.

Populism is clever. It is not an accident.

I don't see any signs of Brexit populism, but plenty of demonstration of Remain populism trying to overturn democracy through sheer shrillness and shaming.

Last edited by Phos; 05.07.2016 at 18:29.
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  #3711  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I was thinking more of the state of affairs after the impact.

It is generally the case, people aim at something other than their thumb - at least initially.

They also sometimes ignore people who quietly say "Careful, there is a Carburettor in there.", or "Shouldn't we pull the fuse first?"
Yeah.

My gripe with all of this is that I have no problem with autonomy, my own EE country went through occupation and liberation many times, we are real pros at it. I think this timing was wrong and it will make things worse for those that have just been used to promote an agenda not good for them again. If the UK knew their own gov would get them in trouble, they should have never entered the EU. I think the EU actually protected those in the UK who were already bleeding out, pushed by their own local political leadership. How dynamic.
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  #3712  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain has always been a nation with a global outlook.

I'm not sure how Phos would be contradicting himself to say that removing ourself from a Euro-centric world view and opening ourselves up to a global world view (with almost every other continental block expanding more rapidly than the EU in terms of economy - dynamic, eh!) is a good thing.

Can you explain?
The problem is that some of the hoo-rah surrounding the Brexit is irrational, and people are engaging in knee-jerking and arm-flapping instead of common sense.

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I don't see any signs of Brexit populism, but plenty of demonstration of Remain population trying to overturn democracy through sheer shrillness and shaming.
Also true.

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Yeah.

My gripe with all of this is that I have no problem with autonomy, my own EE country went through occupation and liberation many times, we are real pros at it. I think this timing was wrong and it will make things worse for those that have just been used to promote an agenda not good for them again. If the UK knew their own gov would get them in trouble, they should have never entered the EU. I think the EU actually protected those in the UK who were already bleeding out, pushed by their own local political leadership. How dynamic.
Any chance of please writing that in clear English? It doesn't make much sense
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  #3713  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They are already on a campaign to line up international trade deals. They are already designing competitive corporate taxation. If you actually heard what Brexit campaigners have been saying, they've already been putting forth a vision of a dynamic, onward looking UK. But of course you likely did not notice or ignored these.
Who stopped them design competitive corporate taxation before the referendum? Taxation is none of EU's or EC's business..
I think we're running in circles. Brexiters have been totally dishonest about things that weren't or couldn't be done "because of the EU legislation"..
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  #3714  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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" I think it is insulting to suggest the UK voted for Brexit because they are mostly ignorant and misinformed fools. " The truth always hurts. Every poll showed most of the educated people voted remain.
Perhaps you can quote an opposite source?
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So you are saying people who haven't been to university are ignorant and misinformed fools?
Where did I mention "university"?

Quote "Young people aged between 16 and 19 have been found to possess only a “basic” grasp of maths and English, with nine million people of working age having low literacy or numeracy skills.

The report, conducted by the OECD (the Operation for Economic Co-Operation and Development) found that out of 23 developed nations, English teens had the lowest literacy rates and the second to lowest numeracy rates
. "

Source

Or

"Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "

Source
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  #3715  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Where did I mention "university"?

Quote "Young people aged between 16 and 19 have been found to possess only a “basic” grasp of maths and English, with nine million people of working age having low literacy or numeracy skills.

The report, conducted by the OECD (the Operation for Economic Co-Operation and Development) found that out of 23 developed nations, English teens had the lowest literacy rates and the second to lowest numeracy rates
. "

Source

Or

"Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "

Source
So Euroscepticism correlates with literacy rates now?



correlation is weak at best.

It actually seems to me that London is a pit of illiteracy (comparatively speaking). Why then did they vote remain there?

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  #3716  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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..Any chance of please writing that in clear English? It doesn't make much sense
Sorry, English was the 4th language I had to learn. Buh...undynamic EU.

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..
"Around 16 per cent, or 5.2 million adults in England, can be described as "functionally illiterate". They would not pass an English GCSE and have literacy levels at or below those expected of an 11-year-old. "
Interesting!
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  #3717  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain has always been a nation with a global outlook.


I'm not sure how Phos would be contradicting himself to say that removing ourself from a Euro-centric world view and opening ourselves up to a global world view (with almost every other continental block expanding more rapidly than the EU in terms of economy - dynamic, eh!) is a good thing.


Can you explain?
Boris et al took an enormous dump on society and didn't have the decency to flush. Consequences don't apply to some, they think. We'll see but if there's an increase in the divide between the haves and have-nots there better be explanations. We were warned. If you damage society and the most vulnerable in the name of economic 'neo-liberation' or the urges of the Ego there will be consequences. See Tottenham, Liverpool, Bristol in the '80s.

Is history always doomed to repeat?

Any Leaver care to offer a cost benefit analysis? I see ridiculous projections of the cost of all this untethering, for lawmakers and society. Was that considered?

Cracking drama in Westminster, meanwhile zero hours contracts and no money left in council coffers makes the daily grind for tens of millions of Brits ever harder.

Games for some, breaking point in a real sense for many. Most are angry at the bleakness of austerity, not the vague impositions of the EU or some fella speaking Romanian. This campaign rode on the resentment of the poor but refuses to help them. Everything returns to the mean and posturing politicians would be wise to remember.

Phosli likes the sound of his own typing, he's alright.
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  #3718  
Old 05.07.2016, 14:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Britain has always been a nation with a global outlook.


I'm not sure how Phos would be contradicting himself to say that removing ourself from a Euro-centric world view and opening ourselves up to a global world view (with almost every other continental block expanding more rapidly than the EU in terms of economy - dynamic, eh!) is a good thing.


Can you explain?
Both colonialism and globalization involve a global outlook, though are very different ways of looking at the world. The British benefited from colonization, that's clear.

After the British empire ended, and rest of the world struggled to start managing itself, while the UK already had a democratic system, living standards kept increasing in the UK relative to the world. Then more and more managed to get their act in order, Asia began to grow, and the resulting wealth from globalized trade stopped reaching many Britons, as a result of national electoral choices.

Based on multiple analyses of the voting patterns, Leave has been the choice of those wanting to be protected from globalization, and wanting a more insular England. Older voters. Less socially mobile voters. Labor voters left behind by New Labour. Their vote for Brexit was voting against change, against dynamism.





As for Phos saying they want to maintain their culture, based on his posts history, it simply about less immigration.
So if the next bit is about dynamism and openness I just have to
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  #3719  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So Euroscepticism correlates with literacy rates now?



correlation is weak at best.

It actually seems to me that London is a pit of illiteracy (comparatively speaking). Why then did they vote remain there?
But the illiteracy statistics you quote are all about children who are too young to vote?

Where do you prove that these statistics apply to adults in these areas?
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  #3720  
Old 05.07.2016, 15:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But the illiteracy statistics you quote are all about children who are too young to vote?

Where do you prove that these statistics apply to adults in these areas?
You claimed there was a correlation.

Now you prove it.
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