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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4041  
Old 10.07.2016, 19:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Thanks for the Charlie Hebdo quotes

My favourites
"Is being nationalist just a matter of preferring your own stupid stuff to the stupid stuff of foreigners?"
"does that mean that we should block up the Channel Tunnel? Then when they want to visit the continent, they'll have to climb into inflatable rafts and paddle across the narrow sea."
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  #4042  
Old 10.07.2016, 19:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The only point that was passed by voters is for UK to leave the EU. All others are just convolusions at this point.
Indeed you are correct that the only point that was passed by voters is for UK to leave the EU.
However, nevertheless, people will say "that is not what I voted for"; human nature innit!
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  #4043  
Old 10.07.2016, 19:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Indeed you are correct that the only point that was passed by voters is for UK to leave the EU.
However, nevertheless, people will say "that is not what I voted for"; human nature innit!
Meh, I would be totally surprised and disappointed if the whole UK legal and political system were to fall for that stupidity. I really don't think the whole of UK is as stupid as some of the loudest brits make it out to be.

I think anybody with an IQ of 10 or above can manage to understand a single sentence question and answer Yes or No accordingly.
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  #4044  
Old 10.07.2016, 19:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Meh, I would be totally surprised and disappointed if the whole UK legal and political system were to fall for that stupidity. I really don't think the whole of UK is as stupid as some of the loudest brits make it out to be.

I think anybody with an IQ of 10 or above can manage to understand a single sentence question and answer Yes or No accordingly.
Do you think people who voted Yes in expectation that the promises made by Leave campaign would be honoured will be satisfied and keep quiet if those promises are not kept?

Probably for the first time I can agree with you in two successive posts; this time I am happy to agree with you that the leave voters had IQs of 10 or above.
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  #4045  
Old 10.07.2016, 20:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You may or may not be a fan of Charlie Hebdo, but here is a translation of their latest on Brexit:

.....So then, it seems that the majority of English people are racist and don't want their borders open to all those grubby brown down-and-outs setting out in inflatable boats for the dream of Europe. Who knew?

.....Alas, the English want nothing to do with us. They want nothing to do with foreigners........
This sort of stuff makes my blood boil. Apart from being schoolboy-level analysis that is no better than anything you'll get from other propagandists of the far right or far left, it makes the classic mistake: in its enthusiasm to tell the British how racist and xenophobic we are, it produces something astonishingly racist and xenophobic itself.

How can you read this hypocrisy without laughing? How can it to be justified to heap anti-UK abuse upon anti-UK abuse, all with the intention of explaining how terrible it is to make generalised criticisms of other nations and their people?

They are simply wrong to suggest that "the English" are racist and xenophobic. You have great sensitivities when it comes to how appalling Nazi propaganda was, and yet you lap up this stuff unquestioningly, and even with, it seems, a certain amount of shiny-eyed excitement -- to the point where you feel you must disseminate translations of it. Think about that.
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  #4046  
Old 10.07.2016, 20:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Do you think people who voted Yes in expectation that the promises made by Leave campaign would be honoured will be satisfied and keep quiet if those promises are not kept?
Oh, I'm sure they will foam at the mouth in the same way Remainers are right now. But just the same, who cares?
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  #4047  
Old 10.07.2016, 20:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Do you think people who voted Yes in expectation that the promises made by Leave campaign would be honoured will be satisfied and keep quiet if those promises are not kept?

Probably for the first time I can agree with you in two successive posts; this time I am happy to agree with you that the leave voters had IQs of 10 or above.
Oh, bless you, Marton! You do make me smile..

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  #4048  
Old 10.07.2016, 21:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This sort of stuff makes my blood boil. Apart from being schoolboy-level analysis that is no better than anything you'll get from other propagandists of the far right or far left, it makes the classic mistake: in its enthusiasm to tell the British how racist and xenophobic we are, it produces something astonishingly racist and xenophobic itself.

How can you read this hypocrisy without laughing? How can it to be justified to heap anti-UK abuse upon anti-UK abuse, all with the intention of explaining how terrible it is to make generalised criticisms of other nations and their people?

They are simply wrong to suggest that "the English" are racist and xenophobic. You have great sensitivities when it comes to how appalling Nazi propaganda was, and yet you lap up this stuff unquestioningly, and even with, it seems, a certain amount of shiny-eyed excitement -- to the point where you feel you must disseminate translations of it. Think about that.
You do know Charlie Hebdo is a satirical magazine
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  #4049  
Old 10.07.2016, 21:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh, I'm sure they will foam at the mouth in the same way Remainers are right now. But just the same, who cares?
Ah, once the voting is finished then who cares what the voters want or think. You have the makings of a great politician; another Blair or Farage
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  #4050  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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By and large, yes! As long as the infrastructure allows it to work easily and without stress.. and individual countries get to choose how it works and manage it to suit their country. Free movement is not going to work if all people over time move unrestricted from 5/6 countries into two.. bit lopsided eh?

But we know this, right?
According to this kind of judgement, Ireland and Italy should have been depopulated now, judging by their massive emigration waves. Yet they are still inhabited and became countries where people immigrate to, these days. Why this Malthusian kind of panic? It happened before with other countries and it stabilised at some point.
Not everyone will want, can or move to two countries. This is the sort of things Ukip has constantly brought into discussion.

Apart from that, people are moving for work and if there are no jobs anymore nobody will be attracted by this island, after all. It's relatively easy to find a job there now, even beneath one's qualifications. Jobs that British people won't do, or can't do - see the NHS staff.

I remember most of Efers were outraged by the way Swiss people seem to perceive immigrants from Germany, for instance. Yet, how will they manage without these people who were trained at the expense of the German state? I don't want to know, I am sure it won't be a pretty picture.
Anyway, how everybody forgets they weren't always that great and dandy and that the EU was a good thing at some points...right, time to watch what is left from the Euro 2016 final.

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  #4051  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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According to these kind of judgement, Ireland and Italy should have been depopulated now, judging by their massive emigration waves. Yet they are still inhabited and became countries where people immigrate to, these days. Why this Malthusian kind of panic? It happened before with other countries and it stabilised at some point.
Not everyone will want, can or move to two countries. This is the sort of things Ukip has constantly brought into discussion.

Apart from that, people are moving for work and if there are no jobs anymore nobody will be attracted by this island, after all. It's relatively easy to find a job there now, even beneath one's qualifications. Jobs that British people won't do, or can't do - see the NHS staff.

I remember most of Eferes were outraged by the way Swiss people seem to perceive immigrants from Germany, for instance. Yet, how will they manage without these people who were trained at the expense of the German state? I don't want to know, I am sure it won't be a pretty picture.
Free movement of people allows people to easily go to where the jobs are; often for short periods.
For example, it's estimated that around 60,000 workers, mainly from Eastern Europe, come to UK farms every summer.
And how many UK people go to work in Summer in hotels, bars and restaurants in Spain and other EU tourist destinations?

On the other hand it also makes it easy for companies to move key staff and set up in new areas.
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  #4052  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well other stock markets have done less well, so the discount is less than you think in investment terms.

Property is an illiquid asset, you must realise it can easily take a year to sell an office block if you want a good price, so in times of uncertainty they can't quote you an accurate valuation on a daily basis. I don't like property as an investment, I might have mentioned that 100 times or more over the last 5 years on this forum.

The US has the biggest stock market in the world, it's not in the EU, the USD is the worlds reserve currency so it's very relevant. There has never been a good time to bet against the USA stock markets, thats been true for 200 years, it won't change next week either.

I really don't take notice of weekly hughstreet sales, it's just noise & people will need to eat regardless.
"Property is an ill-liquid asset" Indeed one man's loss is another's win as you say.

It is rumoured that New York-based Madison International Realty has at least a billion to spend on buying up properties from UK property funds that will be forced to sell at discounted prices.
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  #4053  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Free movement of people allows people to easily go to where the jobs are; often for short periods.
For example, it's estimated that around 60,000 workers, mainly from Eastern Europe, come to UK farms every summer.
And how many UK people go to work in Summer in hotels, bars and restaurants in Spain and other EU tourist destinations?

On the other hand it also makes it easy for companies to move key staff and set up in new areas.
Marton, most countries have really benefited from the EU package and now they're pissed because some newcomers dare to ask to be part of the same success. Countries that also benefited from the Marshall plan etc. It makes me irate, really.
Brexit won't stop people to come to look for work, it will just make salaries even lower for obvious reasons.
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  #4054  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah, once the voting is finished then who cares what the voters want or think. You have the makings of a great politician; another Blair or Farage
Yeah, like in restaurants when the steak is not exactly medium rare. Have you tried the customer support line? Maybe you can ask for support and open a ticket.

It seems like, just from the sheer volume of shrillness around all this, that there may be a constituency for a Pro-EU platform in the UK. Perhaps a UK Co-Dependency Party - representing those who feel lost without the EU's Cultural Suicidal Tendency Programme. Not sure you could find anyone with a spine to lead it though.
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  #4055  
Old 10.07.2016, 22:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Marton, most countries have really benefited from the EU package and now they're pissed because some newcomers dare to ask to be part of the same success. Countries that also benefited from the Marshall plan etc. It makes me irate, really.
Brexit won't stop people to come to look for work, it will just make salaries even lower for obvious reasons.
"Brexit won't stop people to come to look for work" No, but if people have to apply for visas or work permits then the system will favour those with the education or language skills to apply themselves or with the money to pay for third parties to do the work.
If the employers will be responsible to apply and so incur costs then this will be a reason to pay less.
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  #4056  
Old 10.07.2016, 23:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yeah, like in restaurants when the steak is not exactly medium rare. Have you tried the customer support line? Maybe you can ask for support and open a ticket.

It seems like, just from the sheer volume of shrillness around all this, that there may be a constituency for a Pro-EU platform in the UK. Perhaps a UK Co-Dependency Party - representing those who feel lost without the EU's Cultural Suicidal Tendency Programme. Not sure you could find anyone with a spine to lead it though.
As you are a foreigner you may have missed the fact that the official policy of the major UK political parties (Conservatives, Labour, Liberals, SNP) was to support "Remain"; consequently no requirement for a new party.

In fact the Liberal Democrats have announced they will fight the next General election on a platform of "reverse Brexit" and the SNP are trying to find a way to keep Scotland in the EU.

You might do us the courtesy of a little basic research before posting

"the EU's Cultural Suicidal Tendency Programme" You may also not be aware that the EU gives many, many millions in grants to support culture via the European Union culture programme (now creative Europe) & in the UK, 100 Million for the film industry, the European Youth Orchestra and many more projects.
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  #4057  
Old 10.07.2016, 23:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"the EU's Cultural Suicidal Tendency Programme" You may also not be aware that the EU gives many, many millions in grants to support culture via the European Union culture programme (now creative Europe) & in the UK, 100 Million for the film industry, the European Youth Orchestra and many more projects.
How much more money would left on the table without the EU layer? Anybody knows EU efficiency numbers? I wonder why one thinks Brussels is better at co-deciding what needs promotion. And the funds come from where exactly? ECB? :-)
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  #4058  
Old 11.07.2016, 00:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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How much more money would left on the table without the EU layer? Anybody knows EU efficiency numbers? I wonder why one thinks Brussels is better at co-deciding what needs promotion. And the funds come from where exactly? ECB? :-)
With the UK Govt. holding the purse strings I doubt any money will be left on the table for promotion; last in the queue will be the NHS
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  #4059  
Old 11.07.2016, 13:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

May giving a press conference now. Confirmed Brexit means Brexit and no attempts will be made to bypass the result or stay in the EU by the back door.

So it seems whoever becomes PM, the UK will be leaving assuming the PM gets her way...

Impressively setting out her view of the new Conservative party under her leadership.
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  #4060  
Old 11.07.2016, 13:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

FT article here, in which May lays out her plans

https://next.ft.com/content/d80f606e...8-72e9211e86ab

(may be behind a paywall for some)

Some selected quotes (original article is longer):

Quote:
Theresa May, the frontrunner to become the next prime minister, has pledged to tackle “vested interests” in the corporate world with plans to put worker representatives on all main British company boards and impose tighter control on executive pay.

....

She will also distance herself from the Thatcher years by insisting that her party believes in society and communities — not just markets and individualism.

....

Mrs May’s pitch to the centre ground is a risky tactic given that she needs the support of older, rightwing Conservative members to become party leader. But she sees the chaos in the opposition Labour party — where Angela Eagle will on Monday launch a formal leadership challenge against Jeremy Corbyn — as an opportunity to stake out a centrist position for the Conservatives.

....

But Mrs May, who was in the Remain camp alongside Mr Cameron, will on Monday argue that she is the best leader to negotiate a deal for Britain as it leaves the EU: “Brexit means Brexit and we’re going to make a success of it.”

Having been home secretary for six years, Mrs May has a reputation as a steely, uncompromising politician with a focus on trying to cut immigration numbers and taking on the Police Federation.

Monday’s speech is designed to show that behind Mrs May’s sometimes chilly façade she has a strong belief in improving social mobility. She will point to the poor life chances of black people and the white working classes and say she wants a society that works for everyone.

“Rich and poor, north and south, urban and rural, young and old, male and female, black and white, sick and healthy, public sector, private sector, those with skills and those without,” she will say.

That fairness will include measures to ensure that everyone can share in the country’s wealth in a deliberate “break with the past” for the party.

....

She is also expected to announce that annual shareholder votes on corporate pay should be binding rather than advisory. The proposal follows a wave of shareholder protests against high pay this year at companies including BP, Anglo American and Shire.
not bad methinks ...

Hope she can live up to the promises.
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