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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4161  
Old 14.07.2016, 00:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There you go, this is the way:
Sajid Javid starts post-Brexit trade talks with India

Who can afford the luxury of gloom and doom? Do the Hustle!
Seems Javid has been fired; I am sure somebody else will take his flight ticket!
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  #4162  
Old 14.07.2016, 00:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course she can. 4 mil is what? Around 1% (maths dunce here so don't yell at me if it's wrong ) of the total 33,551,983 people that voted in the referendum. If she can ignore the 16mil+ that voted Remain she can certainly ignore the much smaller number.
So you're saying that 99% of the people who took part in the referendum are basically in agreement with the result?
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  #4163  
Old 14.07.2016, 00:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You do not do much research do you?

Membership in EFTA also stipulates the Primacy of European Union Law.

The aim of the EEA Agreement is to guarantee the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital; to provide equal conditions of competition and to abolish discrimination on grounds of nationality in all 31 EEA States – the 28 EU States and 3 of the EFTA States.

EEA law originates from EU law. As a matter of principle, the EU law rules concerning the single market have been transposed and are being transposed to the EEA legal order.
You have selective attention, don't you? EFTA Court only concerns itself with those relating to free movement, and its interpretation of the agreement. It can't overrule every UK Law and Court decision that way ECJ can.
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  #4164  
Old 14.07.2016, 00:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Seems Javid has been fired; I am sure somebody else will take his flight ticket!
Where do you see that? That would be silly. It is the gloom and doom moaners that need to be cleared out of the system.
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  #4165  
Old 14.07.2016, 01:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You have selective attention, don't you? EFTA Court only concerns itself with those relating to free movement, and its interpretation of the agreement. It can't overrule every UK Law and Court decision that way ECJ can.
Of course it cannot overrule every UK Law, UK is not (yet) an EFTA member.

"EFTA Court only concerns itself with those relating to free movement"
Not true, you can read examples of decided EFTA Court cases in the Internet.

Anyway the EFTA Court can and has referred cases to the ECJ so there is no easy "get-out".

BTW the ECJ is in Luxembourg.
You mentioned Strasbourg so maybe you are thinking of the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) which is in Strasbourg rather than the ECJ?

The EFTA Surveillance Authority and the EFTA Court have to comply with the ECHR
Source
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  #4166  
Old 14.07.2016, 01:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Where do you see that? That would be silly. It is the gloom and doom moaners that need to be cleared out of the system.
Javid is no longer Business Secretary; new job yet to be announced
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  #4167  
Old 14.07.2016, 01:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course it cannot overrule every UK Law, UK is not (yet) an EFTA member.
I think you are mixing up your acronyms and are chasing your own tail. I'll let you do your circling thing on your own. Have fun, don't get dizzy.
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  #4168  
Old 14.07.2016, 01:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you are mixing up your acronyms and are chasing your own tail. I'll let you do your circling thing on your own. Have fun, don't get dizzy.
I don't have a tail
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  #4169  
Old 14.07.2016, 08:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Well I for one can't wait for Boris' first meeting with Turkey...

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05...y-competition/
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  #4170  
Old 14.07.2016, 09:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris foreign secretary, David Davis Secretary of State for Brexit. Anyone still think that Article 50 won't be invoked? Good that May has put this one to bed straight away. Brexit is happening. Phew.
May's strategy is rather to make the Brexit happen while evoking article 50 as late as possible. By playing the clock, she will force the Europeans to discussions of some kind, it be Merkel makes a public statement that May is dishonest to not play by the rules. But Merkel doesn't have this kind of political courage, so don't expect an open war between Merkel and May.

May has already evoked this week the possible delay of the invocation of article 50 to 2017, it was "end of the year" in her words last week. She is very prompt to change her calendar and will infuriate the EU with it as much as she can. I can't tell you whether the EU will be strong enough to refuse negotiation before the evocation of the article 50, but I can assure you that the UK will use and misuse any division of the EU. The UK will also be used and misused by some EU countries to undermine unity for internal political reasons. Who will be more isolated: May or Merkel? We'll see.

Brexit only equals article 50 in the fair play legal sense of the term. Nobody is fair in politics and nobody cares about legality outside of Germany.
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  #4171  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Works for me as of a few seconds ago and I sure as hell don't have a Torygraph subscription.
Yes, it tracks numbers of articles and limits you to a certain number, used to be ten per month, not sure now.

Easy to get around though, just open the link in a new private session. Closer the private session periodically to reset the counter.
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  #4172  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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May's strategy is rather to make the Brexit happen while evoking article 50 as late as possible. By playing the clock, she will force the Europeans to discussions of some kind, it be Merkel makes a public statement that May is dishonest to not play by the rules. But Merkel doesn't have this kind of political courage, so don't expect an open war between Merkel and May.

May has already evoked this week the possible delay of the invocation of article 50 to 2017, it was "end of the year" in her words last week. She is very prompt to change her calendar and will infuriate the EU with it as much as she can. I can't tell you whether the EU will be strong enough to refuse negotiation before the evocation of the article 50, but I can assure you that the UK will use and misuse any division of the EU. The UK will also be used and misused by some EU countries to undermine unity for internal political reasons. Who will be more isolated: May or Merkel? We'll see.

Brexit only equals article 50 in the fair play legal sense of the term. Nobody is fair in politics and nobody cares about legality outside of Germany.
UK companies shouldn't have the same rights within EU anymore. Starting with referendum result day... That would be fair. Now, is Germany going to let them have their way...again? It did, so far.
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  #4173  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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UK companies shouldn't have the same rights within EU anymore. Starting with referendum result day... That would be fair.
Legally, the UK is member of the union as long as article 50 has not been invoked as the referendum was legally purely consultative. In other words, May wants to negotiate the Brexit as a full member of the EU, while the EU wants to do what is in EU treaty. However, if May wants to be a full member of the EU for a while she is disregarding the referendum results for a while too, then there is no Brexit to negotiate in the first place. From a German perspective, May wants to be a EU state free from EU law. Yep, that's what it will be like in the coming years....
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  #4174  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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May's strategy is rather to make the Brexit happen while evoking article 50 as late as possible. By playing the clock, she will force the Europeans to discussions of some kind, it be Merkel makes a public statement that May is dishonest to not play by the rules. But Merkel doesn't have this kind of political courage, so don't expect an open war between Merkel and May.

May has already evoked this week the possible delay of the invocation of article 50 to 2017, it was "end of the year" in her words last week. She is very prompt to change her calendar and will infuriate the EU with it as much as she can. I can't tell you whether the EU will be strong enough to refuse negotiation before the evocation of the article 50, but I can assure you that the UK will use and misuse any division of the EU. The UK will also be used and misused by some EU countries to undermine unity for internal political reasons. Who will be more isolated: May or Merkel? We'll see.

Brexit only equals article 50 in the fair play legal sense of the term. Nobody is fair in politics and nobody cares about legality outside of Germany.
The point is this, the EU is helpless until Article 50 is invoked. They can't do anything. May will know this and could try and maintain the uncertainty over when Art. 50 will be invoked in order to give Britain the upper hand in negotiations.

Likewise, the EU will not be able to stop any informal negotiations taking place before Art. 50 is invoked as this will be in interest of both UK and EU.
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  #4175  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It should only take a few months for the UK to re-enter EFTA. Exiting the EU is completed two years after invoking Article 50. Renegotiating a bilateral may take many, many years if ever as it requires approval by all 27 members, because this is an extremely dysfunctional bunch we are talking about.

The EU MUST cooperate with the UK, as there are articles in its charter on how it is to cooperate with neighbouring countries.

Plotting this course should only take until the end of the year. All that is needed here for now is stability and certainty in the process to offset overreactions and the Project Fear caused by Brexit.

The EU needs this stability with the UK more than the UK needs it.
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  #4176  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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May wants to be a EU state free from EU law.
May was the only major candidate for Conservative leadership who supported remaining.
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  #4177  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The point is this, the EU is helpless until Article 50 is invoked. They can't do anything. May will know this and could try and maintain the uncertainty over when Art. 50 will be invoked in order to give Britain the upper hand in negotiations.
This is exactly what I was explaining. However, if Merkel is not only righteous German but also courageous German, she could say that there is no upper hand in an imaginary negotiation. Legally, by EU law, which Germany takes very seriously, there is nothing to discuss before the invocation of article 50. May can come and drink tea in Brussel as much as she wants, Merkel could in theory let her drink her tea alone and discuss Brexit with herself. I don't know whether the word "courage" belongs to the vocabulary of any politician since Harvey Milk.

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May was the only major candidate for Conservative leadership who supported remaining.
Nobody cares about that anymore, not even May herself. If she doesn't get Britten out of the EU, whether she likes it or not, her political career is dead. She clearly decided for career oven conviction by running for PM after Brexit.
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  #4178  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

With May as PM and Hammond in as Chancellor I was disappointed to hear there was no place for me in the cabinet

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  #4179  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So glad that David Davis is Minister for Brexit. He speaks so much sense, furthermore he's a man of principle. If only he'd won the Tory leadership way back when, I might have considered voting for them.

http://www.conservativehome.com/plat...r-britain.html
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  #4180  
Old 14.07.2016, 10:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nobody cares about that anymore
Apart from lots of Tory and non-Tory voters back in Blighty.
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