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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4541  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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top managers get paid 2-3 times of what a teacher gets. Also it's not 13 weeks of vacation, it's 13 weeks without classes. Typically, about 3 of them are used for mandatory further education courses, another 6 or 7 are used for preparation time, language stays with students etc. Over the last 4 years, I was able to take an average of 3 weeks per year of vacation time and I usually work 3 out of 4 weekends every month. The vacation time will likely rise to perhaps 4-5 in another 10 years as slightly less preparation is needed with more experience. Officially, I have 4 weeks of actual vacation time in my (public school) contract.

In the private school sector, things are even worse, as often you don't get any paid vacation at all and are hired on a per-lesson basis.

I'm sure there are lots of areas where the government actually wastes more money than would be the case in the private sector, but education is a very bad example for this.

Also, I work a crapload more now as a teacher than I did as an IT team leader, which was my previous job - and pay is about 1/3 less. Job satisfaction is much higher now, that's one thing I can't complain about.
If teachers work as hard as they tell everyone during the school holidays how about the next time they go on strike they do so then?

My missus is a teacher and she never had to take 3 weeks off for mandatory further education courses. And 6-7 weeks for Prep?! A couple of days max before term starts again. Perhaps longer after the summer break.

In general there are two types of teacher. Those that accept they're never going to rich doing the job, but are able to offset that knowing it can be deeply rewarding, with great holidays and something you can really engage yourself in. The other type just complain about everything - money, government, curriculum, hours etc. They always find someone else to blame and by and large tend not be very good teachers.

Anyway, this has veered waaaay off topic. I didn't want to have a dig at teachers, I know it's not an easy job. But not so hard that they warrant all the benefits that they get in Germany and I was referring to teachers specifically in Germany.
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  #4542  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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My missus is a teacher and she never had to take 3 weeks off for mandatory further education courses. And 6-7 weeks for Prep?! A couple of days max before term starts again.
no offense - but then I somehow doubt the quality of her work.
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  #4543  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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no offense - but then I somehow doubt the quality of her work.
Does the curriculum change every year, or are this years lessons a repeat of last years lessons....... If it's just repeating the same lessons time after time then preparation should not take too long.
Assuming the teacher actually knows their shit, rather than knowing they are shit, it can't really be that difficult.
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  #4544  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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no offense - but then I somehow doubt the quality of her work.
Well the state assessors don't, she got the highest possible grading they hand out here last time out.
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  #4545  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well the state assessors don't, she got the highest possible grading they hand out here last time out.
Gold star and allowed to go and play the musical instruments in the corner?
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  #4546  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Gold star and allowed to go and play the musical instruments in the corner?
Something like that, she didn't have to bring in the biscuits for the staff room for a whole two weeks.
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  #4547  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Does the curriculum change every year, or are this years lessons a repeat of last years lessons....... If it's just repeating the same lessons time after time then preparation should not take too long.
Assuming the teacher actually knows their shit, rather than knowing they are shit, it can't really be that difficult.
We get new course books every other year or so, curricula are generally reformed every time the government changes, plus there's a lot of project work, interdisciplinary work to keep the lessons engaging and interesting for all of those involved.

Apart from that: if you just keep recycling old crap rather than tailoring your lessons to the respective students and classes, you're indeed shit (to use your language). But you'd probably do an equally shitty job no matter what you do in life. If your aim in life is to get through with the least amount of work, teaching will do just fine. There are lazy people in every sector and, unfortunately, you get away with it more often than not.

The sentence "assuming the teacher actually knows .... " is a standard sentence routinely used by the right-wing anti-education camp.
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  #4548  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well the state assessors don't, she got the highest possible grading they hand out here last time out.
I bet she didn't prepare the lessons that state assessor attended, either?
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  #4549  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In general there are two types of teacher. Those that accept they're never going to rich doing the job, but are able to offset that knowing it can be deeply rewarding, with great holidays and something you can really engage yourself in. The other type just complain about everything - money, government, curriculum, hours etc. They always find someone else to blame and by and large tend not be very good teachers.
Sounds like you're one yourself. Of the 2nd type that is.
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  #4550  
Old 09.08.2016, 11:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The sentence "assuming the teacher actually knows .... " is a standard sentence routinely used by the right-wing anti-education camp.
I don't have a problem with that, being right wing & anti education.
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  #4551  
Old 09.08.2016, 13:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I bet she didn't prepare the lessons that state assessor attended, either?
Dunno what it involved. Each teacher that works in Canton Zürich has to have one every few years though.
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  #4552  
Old 09.08.2016, 19:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Seems EFTA may not be the easy (interim) solution many people have proposed!

Quote "Norway could block any UK attempt to rejoin the European Free Trade Association, the small club of nations that has access to the EU single market without joining the EU itself.
Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation."

Source

Last edited by marton; 10.08.2016 at 08:22.
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  #4553  
Old 09.08.2016, 19:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The UK economy slowed down by more than expected in July in the wake of the Brexit vote, according to the latest monthly GDP estimates from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, and could foreshadow a recession by the end of 2017.

NIESR said output grew by 0.3% in the three months ending in July, following growth of 0.6% in the three months to June and expectations of a figure of 0.4%.

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  #4554  
Old 09.08.2016, 21:46
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Norway could block UK attempt to access EU single market

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Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker, reflecting a growing debate in the country following Brexit, told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation (EFTA). It would shift the balance, which is not necessarily in Norway’s interests.”
She also confirmed that the UK could only join if there was unanimous agreement, thereby providing Norway with a veto.
It seems like even joining EFTA may not be so straight forward after all...
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  #4555  
Old 09.08.2016, 22:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Again, why would we want to? Yes you get access to the single market, BUT also have to put up with the Free Movement. That isn't what Britons voted for. The UK will have to make its own agreement or do without.
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  #4556  
Old 09.08.2016, 22:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Again, why would we want to? Yes you get access to the single market, BUT also have to put up with the Free Movement. That isn't what Britons voted for. The UK will have to make its own agreement or do without.
"That isn't what Britons voted for." That is the key issue. Britons voted to leave the EU but what was implied by that vote? There is no common view! Stop free movement might be what you voted for but who promised to you to stop free movement?

Quotes after the vote;
"leading Tory Eurosceptic MEP Daniel Hannan told BBC Newsnight that the leave campaign had never promised to cut immigration numbers and that the “free movement of workers to and from the UK should continue to ensure Britain remained within the single market”.
Boris Johnson also supported "free movement of workers" in his Telegraph article on 26th June.
Source
and Boris is leading the Brexit negotiation so do not expect to see the end of free movement
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  #4557  
Old 10.08.2016, 00:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Again, why would we want to? Yes you get access to the single market, BUT also have to put up with the Free Movement. That isn't what Britons voted for. The UK will have to make its own agreement or do without.


EFTA does NOT have the Free Movement in the way of the EU


the Norwegians wii not block England's way back into the club
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  #4558  
Old 10.08.2016, 02:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Seems EFTA may not be the easy (interim) solution many people have proposed!

Quote "Norway could block any UK attempt to rejoin the European Free Trade Association, the small club of nations that has access to the EU single market without joining the EU itself.
Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation."

Source
@marton old chap, I have some wonderful news for you. If you intend to inform us of all those same Guardian/Indie (etc.) items we read in our lunch-break earlier in the day -- the ones that ask someone for a negative comment on Brexit or the future of the UK -- you will never again have any shortage of fascinating stuff to tap out on EF. They will continue on and on and on, forever.

In the good old days of journalism, people used to go out and find news to report. Now, the hacks sit at their desks and either report what other people are reporting on Twitter, or they ring round some names on their lists of those "always good for a quote". From these fearless journalistic endeavours, we get this sort of stuff disclosed by a Norwegian minister to an obscure newspaper, when asked about the UK joining EFTA (which as far as I know, we have not suggested doing) -- "It’s not certain that it would be a good idea"

Thank you @marton. What a fantastically useful quote that is, about a non-existent event. Please keep entertaining us.
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  #4559  
Old 10.08.2016, 08:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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@marton old chap, I have some wonderful news for you. If you intend to inform us of all those same Guardian/Indie (etc.) items we read in our lunch-break earlier in the day -- the ones that ask someone for a negative comment on Brexit or the future of the UK -- you will never again have any shortage of fascinating stuff to tap out on EF. They will continue on and on and on, forever.

In the good old days of journalism, people used to go out and find news to report. Now, the hacks sit at their desks and either report what other people are reporting on Twitter, or they ring round some names on their lists of those "always good for a quote". From these fearless journalistic endeavours, we get this sort of stuff disclosed by a Norwegian minister to an obscure newspaper, when asked about the UK joining EFTA (which as far as I know, we have not suggested doing) -- "It’s not certain that it would be a good idea"

Thank you @marton. What a fantastically useful quote that is, about a non-existent event. Please keep entertaining us.
Thank you so much, nice to know I am appreciated

"to an obscure newspaper" You will be happy to learn "Aftenposten (Norwegian for "The Evening Post") is Norway's largest printed newspaper by circulation. It is based in Oslo.

"about the UK joining EFTA (which as far as I know, we have not suggested doing)." From the same Guardian article "Some Brexit supporters have suggested that Efta would be one way of retaining access to the single market while honouring the referendum mandate to leave the EU."
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  #4560  
Old 10.08.2016, 08:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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EFTA does NOT have the Free Movement in the way of the EU
It's a requirement of the EEA which is the only remaining point of EFTA.

Except for Liechtenstein.
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