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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #461  
Old 07.04.2016, 19:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This slipped under the radar of most mainstream media yesterday (perhaps deliberately?), but there was an EU related referendum yesterday in the Netherlands yesterday to ratify the EU-Ukraine deal. This was resoundingly defeated (62% against, 38% for), with a 32% turnout ensuring that the referendum was valid.
Yes I saw that, and heard the usual excuses from the losing side that the low turnout somehow invalidated the vote.

The UK Remain campaign needs to take this sort of thing very seriously. The protesting side are always more likely to turn out to vote. It's very easy to see a scenario where the majority support Remain to some degree, but are not sufficiently motivated to vote, and end up losing the referendum due to the low turnout.

(For the record, I'm still undecided. Natural instinct is to vote Leave as I'm a bit of a troublemaker, but I'm a little anxious that this might be a situation where I vote in haste, enjoy the fallout for a little while.... then repent at leisure.)
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  #462  
Old 09.04.2016, 12:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

How the EU is undemocratic. Enjoy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matt...b_9514608.html
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  #463  
Old 10.04.2016, 17:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes I saw that, and heard the usual excuses from the losing side that the low turnout somehow invalidated the vote.

The UK Remain campaign needs to take this sort of thing very seriously. The protesting side are always more likely to turn out to vote. It's very easy to see a scenario where the majority support Remain to some degree, but are not sufficiently motivated to vote, and end up losing the referendum due to the low turnout.

(For the record, I'm still undecided. Natural instinct is to vote Leave as I'm a bit of a troublemaker, but I'm a little anxious that this might be a situation where I vote in haste, enjoy the fallout for a little while.... then repent at leisure.)
The press have been very busy explaining to us that the Dutch vote should not be interpreted as showing the Dutch are disillusioned with the eu. On the contrary, they are merely disillusioned with it.
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  #464  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The referendum isn't legally binding (other EU countries have ratified it through parliaments), but now the EU will have to willfully ignore the Dutch voters directly before the Brexit referendum. This is a great advert for the EU.
No that is factually incorrect! It is a national issue not an EU one. It is up to the Dutch government to address the issue, if they decided to go ahead and ratify the agreement then the EU must accept their decision just as they must accept their decision not to ratify the agreement. States are fully sovereign on treaty ratification and the EU cannot interfere with that, just as they could not interfere with the many decisions of various UK PMs that brought the UK from EEC To EU without consulting the UK electorate.
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  #465  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Agree to disagree, I can about most things. But I just don't get the 18% who don't care??? This WILL affect us all- so how can one NOT care???
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  #466  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Agree to disagree, I can about most things. But I just don't get the 18% who don't care??? This WILL affect us all- so how can one NOT care???
Why should we care?
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  #467  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Agree to disagree, I can about most things. But I just don't get the 18% who don't care??? This WILL affect us all- so how can one NOT care???
TBH, I don't think anyone 'here' will be impacted in any way at all. Anyone who is here with a B permit which lasts for 5 years will be entitled to a C permit.
Free movement is rather new, as a Brit I got 1 year B permits then after 5 years a C. Why do you believe it will be any different. It's not as if peoples permits once issued are dependent on the UK being in the EU.
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  #468  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As usual long on opinion short on facts, the most important one being that the elected parliament of the EU can remove the entire Commission at any time but of course that would not fit well with the author's opinion.

I pity the UK voter in making their decision because both sides are telling porkies that are far from the facts and there seems to be very little honest debate about the future of the country.
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  #469  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the link " This means the UK Government can vote against a proposal and as long as it receives enough votes from the other Member States it becomes law in the UK anyway"

That is the principle of democracy; the majority rules.
For example, in Switzerland referendums with just 51% approval are put into law.

The article also fails to mention "Except where the Treaties provide otherwise, decisions of the European Council are taken by consensus, i.e. by unanimity, which means that if one head of State or government disagrees, no decision is taken."

Rubbish article really
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  #470  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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TBH, I don't think anyone 'here' will be impacted in any way at all. Anyone who is here with a B permit which lasts for 5 years will be entitled to a C permit.
Free movement is rather new, as a Brit I got 1 year B permits then after 5 years a C. Why do you believe it will be any different. It's not as if peoples permits once issued are dependent on the UK being in the EU.
In the case of C permit holders I believe you are right, however in the case of other permit holders it is hard to say. If the UK were to exit there is provision for negotiations between the EU and the U.K., but that would not address the Swiss situation. Without an agreement I would assume the UK citizens would be treated as other third country citizens.
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  #471  
Old 10.04.2016, 21:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the case of C permit holders I believe you are right, however in the case of other permit holders it is hard to say. If the UK were to exit there is provision for negotiations between the EU and the U.K., but that would not address the Swiss situation. Without an agreement I would assume the UK citizens would be treated as other third country citizens.
The UK was never treated in the past as a third country, we got C permits after 5 when most countries waited 10.
The Swiss won't forget that the Brits invented downhill skiing.........
There will be an agreement, the Swiss sell quite a few watches in the UK.
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  #472  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Well I certainly remember pre EU days and bilaterals- where anyone from Switzerland, and vice-versa- had to have the employer apply for the permit and prove they had to employ you, rather than one of the locals (I went to work for Beechams in London as PA and assistant translator). I would have not been able to re-join future OH later in the UK or work- unless we got married (as we did).

DB, I'd say anyone who has children should really care- for their future. They might wish to travel- they might even wish to study in the UK- or Scotland (for free!)- and more.
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  #473  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Agree to disagree, I can about most things. But I just don't get the 18% who don't care??? This WILL affect us all- so how can one NOT care???

19 now Odile
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  #474  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well I certainly remember pre EU days and bilaterals- where anyone from Switzerland, and vice-versa- had to have the employer apply for the permit and prove they had to employ you, rather than one of the locals (I went to work for Beechams in London as PA and assistant translator). I would have not been able to re-join future OH later in the UK or work- unless we got married (as we did).

DB, I'd say anyone who has children should really care- for their future. They might wish to travel- they might even wish to study in the UK- or Scotland (for free!)- and more.
I suspect if you have a job it will be renewed, Swiss industry would have an issue if every Brit working had to vacate their desks at the end of the month.

People always traveled from Britain if they wanted to, exchange controls rather than Britain being in the UK were the bigger issue.
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  #475  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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19 now Odile
Fair enough if you live in Canada- I suppose

FMF - for existing contracts, I suppose yes, they will hold- but for the future?
Hence my mention of children. My grandchildren are entitled to Swiss nationality however. Some children of those EU here may want to choose a different life, prospects and education at some point- as I did all that time ago.
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  #476  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Fair enough if you live in Canada- I suppose

FMF - for existing contracts, I suppose yes, they will hold- but for the future?
Hence my mention of children. My grandchildren are entitled to Swiss nationality however. Some children of those EU here may want to choose a different life, prospects and education at some point- as I did all that time ago.
I suspect Switzerland won't be so attractive in the future, salaries will be lower. It no longer has the Banking advantage of 'silence', so the halcyon days may be over.

If your any good at you job, you will get a job in CH, it always was the case it always will be, if your mr Average perhaps not.
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  #477  
Old 10.04.2016, 22:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

There are an awful lot of Mr, Miss, Ms and Mrs average around ...

guess that's why I got the job at Beecham's then
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  #478  
Old 10.04.2016, 23:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well I certainly remember pre EU days and bilaterals- where anyone from Switzerland, and vice-versa- had to have the employer apply for the permit and prove they had to employ you, rather than one of the locals (I went to work for Beechams in London as PA and assistant translator). I would have not been able to re-join future OH later in the UK or work- unless we got married (as we did).

DB, I'd say anyone who has children should really care- for their future. They might wish to travel- they might even wish to study in the UK- or Scotland (for free!)- and more.
I very much doubt our children will have any desire to work or study in such a vile, depressing country.

But if they did, they're British: whether the UK is in or out of the EU makes no difference to their right to live there.
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  #479  
Old 10.04.2016, 23:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Indeed, they belong to a tiny minority, like my children and grand-children, who will have the choice in or out of EU.

In 1970- I had to make the grade and truly prove myself to get the job- aged 19 I was very lucky to be picked indeed.
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  #480  
Old 11.04.2016, 11:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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TBH, I don't think anyone 'here' will be impacted in any way at all. Anyone who is here with a B permit which lasts for 5 years will be entitled to a C permit.
Free movement is rather new, as a Brit I got 1 year B permits then after 5 years a C. Why do you believe it will be any different. It's not as if peoples permits once issued are dependent on the UK being in the EU.
Yes, and there is no reason whatsoever to assume that a Brexit would terminate the FMOP agreement wiuth Switzerland.

The naysayers like to tell us that after a Brexit the hens will stop laying and milk will be sour, and there'll be no more fast cars, sex or chocolate - but all this is pure conjecture if not scaremongering.

Personally I feel the EU is in the process of committing suicide anyway, so whether or not we stay will not matter in the long term but will be a good prospect in the short term. When you attend a funeral its always beter to be in the wake than in the coffin.
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