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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4821  
Old 29.08.2016, 22:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Exactly that, I've no doubt that Phos is big enough to deal with it. However people on here have flounced off for far far less.
This thread is a microcosm which represents exactly what has been going wrong in politics for a while.

The whole "My opinion is righter than yours because you wear different shoes" thing is just so bass ackwards, it really isn't all that surprising that politics has gone to hell in a handbasket.

Sad really. With the range of backgrounds, educations and life experiences here on EF I expect not just a lively debate, but also a reasonably high level.
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  #4822  
Old 29.08.2016, 23:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So, for want of usage on the particular piece of rock you happened to be born and raised on, you want to forbid anyone from any other particular piece of rock using that particular term, accurate as it may be?
What on Earth gives you that idea?

I merely made a stab at identifying a person's background based upon their use of language, and was told by that person that I was correct. He could just have easily been a Brit who worked in the legal profession. At no point did I forbid him from debating anything, and I'm really surprised at you making such an accusation. If anything, I was away for a number of hours attending to other matters and came back to a few pages of posts that you appear to believe I instigated. Disappointing.


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Perhaps they are better at shutting down such discussion over there, obviously by attacking those who say it. And then they feign shock. It is kind of funny, although somewhat pathetic.
There's absolutely nothing funny about Brexit, and the people affected by it are far from pathetic for expressing their concerns. You repeatedly ask questions, then when marton answered, you said you weren't interested in his opinion.

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I'll take your answer to that question is to abstain from answering it. But it wasn't really your response I was interested in.
Call that healthy debate?


Just a word to people who may not know, Britain hasn't experienced a cluster of events in politics such as happened in late June, in my lifetime. The venom when I'm over there, is palpable, and the circus is due to start again in a few weeks. I have to go back for a few weeks to attend to business in the UK, but haven't booked my flights yet because the thought of it fills me with dread. I'll be safe with my friends and family, but there are people I will be avoiding like the plague.

When I'm placing work contracts, if I get a whiff of someone having voted Leave, the job will go elsewhere. I absolutely refuse to put my money in their pockets and have even considered asking a German neighbour to fly over and do the building work for me.
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  #4823  
Old 29.08.2016, 23:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The decisions the EU enforces on its member states often negatively impact its communities and cultures in ways they neither asked for or want. I happen to respect those communities and cultures. I think the EU contributes to social incohesion and needs to be curtailed. Its been overdue, and Brexit has moved it in the right direction towards reform. The EU would not listen any other way.
"The decisions the EU enforces on its member states " But every member state has a veto during the decision making process so your statement is not correct; interesting that the same incorrect statement popped up several times during the leave campaign.
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  #4824  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It has been 100% mobbing against Phosphor (even though I'm sure he does intentionally wind up some of the usual suspects) but then that is this thread in a nutshell. Toys, prams, and people with way too much time on their hands throw things out of them.

It's so deliciously ironic to see people complaining about mobbing etc in other areas of the forum, yet all you have to do is go to any political or religion-related thread and you will see by far the worst and most insidious example of it.

Hypocrisy is rife on this forum.
If you say so
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  #4825  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"The decisions the EU enforces on its member states " But every member state has a veto during the decision making process so your statement is not correct; interesting that the same incorrect statement popped up several times during the leave campaign.
Who cares about correct or incorrect when you can go with gut feeling? EU = foreigners. EU immigrants = foreigners. "Vote Leave and take back control (from foreigners)".
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Old 30.08.2016, 00:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As for the refusal to accept the results, on the other hand, I'm not sure I have ever seen a greater disdain for democracy in the western world. But then, again, perspective, I suppose.
Now I assume you are trying to be funny. Or are you trolling again — "oh you undemocratic, backward Brits (as you call them)"? I refer you once again to Bush vs Gore for one of the most staggering displays of contempt for democracy.
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  #4827  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If the referendum voting results were the same in a general election under the current FPTP system it would have been a land slide the like we've not seen. Brexit won. Democratically. Get over it.

Exactly. "You don't come from there so can't have an opinion" is the worst possible argument. Some of the behaviour of a few members over the last few pages is nothing short of mobbing.
"it would have been a land slide" landslide = 52%?
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  #4828  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Its not intentional at all on my part, as I don't know nor care what riles them up or doesn't. I'll just make a point and challenge theirs. That is what a discussion is about.

I actually like my thoughts and opinion on such matters challenged, although this lot shows very little capability of challenging when they have to resort to personal responses.

But I do know the last pages have been about closing down a line of discussion they have problems with losing. For me, its just a demonstration of the same snowflake attributes reported all around all along.
"I don't know nor care what riles them up or doesn't." Well then you simply have to live with the consequences of your actions.

An alternative approach could be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
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  #4829  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"it would have been a land slide" landslide = 52%?
I assume Loz is referring to the distribution of Leave votes by electorate. I haven't seen those figures but presumably Remain won overwhelmingly in a small number of political constituencies and Leave won with slimmer margins in a larger number of electorates. All of which is irrelevant — it's like measuring the "popular vote" in a US Presidential election.
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Old 30.08.2016, 00:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"I don't know nor care what riles them up or doesn't." Well then you simply have to live with the consequences of your actions.

An alternative approach could be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
Phos, this is my point. Take an informed view and argue it intelligently — everybody will appreciate that. Argue for the sake of riling people and you're simply being a troll.
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  #4831  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What on Earth gives you that idea?

I merely made a stab at identifying a person's background based upon their use of language, and was told by that person that I was correct. He could just have easily been a Brit who worked in the legal profession. At no point did I forbid him from debating anything, and I'm really surprised at you making such an accusation. If anything, I was away for a number of hours attending to other matters and came back to a few pages of posts that you appear to believe I instigated. Disappointing.


Back in The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH you were apparently making the claim that Phos's heritage was to your mind somehow tied up with whether he should be taken seriously or not.
You then claimed primacy of your view, as a result of the bit of rock you and your family spent a lot of time on.
Then you make the claim that you and yours will be affected by Brexit.
Then you lay the groundwork for rejecting Phos's right to an opinion by holding that if he doesn't tell you where he is from then this means that he has no respect.
I guess that seems a logical progression to you, I would call it tenuous.

If building a framework around if Phos is to be taken seriously or not, where he was born, or if he is respectful or not isn't a path to reject anything he says, then I'm not sure what else it might be.

Skip the mansplaining bit please, I find it tedious.
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  #4832  
Old 30.08.2016, 00:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That may be true, though I'm not sure the EU should be credited with that. They aren't really in a position from Brussels to determine what and how needs to be addressed somewhere else. These are decisions that are determined at the local level. So they may have funded it as they were required, but I do not believe they know what is best for everybody everywhere. Which is really the problem with a centralized planning community like the EU. Who is to say such improvements would not have been made without the EU?
"Who is to say such improvements would not have been made without the EU?" Well so far nobody has stood up and promised to continue delivering the same level of funding to the poorer parts of Britain that the EU are/were delivering.

Statements have been made that funding will continue for science projects and farmers but nothing said about continuing the improvement grants so your question has been answered.

"Which is really the problem with a centralized planning community like the EU" Well after Brexit the planning will be centralized at a national level: probably done by the same people who currently advise the EU about UK planning needs so not much difference!
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  #4833  
Old 30.08.2016, 01:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Back in The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH you were apparently making the claim that Phos's heritage was to your mind somehow tied up with whether he should be taken seriously or not.
You then claimed primacy of your view, as a result of the bit of rock you and your family spent a lot of time on.
Then you make the claim that you and yours will be affected by Brexit.
Then you lay the groundwork for rejecting Phos's right to an opinion by holding that if he doesn't tell you where he is from then this means that he has no respect.
I guess that seems a logical progression to you, I would call it tenuous.

If building a framework around if Phos is to be taken seriously or not, where he was born, or if he is respectful or not isn't a path to reject anything he says, then I'm not sure what else it might be.

Let's get one thing straight shall we?

My school of thought is that you don't have to be a heroin addict to have a valid opinion on the disadvantages of taking class A drugs.


As far as Brexit goes, I haunted www.newsnow.co.uk for weeks as it's my news source of choice. I spent far too long reading opinions from all around the World in the hope that I would find a political parallel somewhere.


I asked for a frame of reference from Phos because I've seen the same person be asked the same question many times since about January, and refuse an answer every time. I've asked him myself before, many months ago. It really riled me when Phos said he wasn't interested in marton's opinion because I've seen him use this tack too many times in the past to shut people down for daring to answer a question he's posed.


Whenever we have a serious debate where people are sharing real experiences, hopes and fears, he pipes up with some banal remark and ridicules the other people who hold different opinions to him.


What you have seen me do throughout the pages of this thread, is wear my heart on my sleeve. This really matters to me and to millions of other people. It's had a huge impact on my life for a year now, and will continue to do so for years to come. This result is affecting every financial decision I make, and has put elements of my future on hold indefinitely. This isn't just a talking point. It's real and it's having a massive impact, so when someone comes flitting along saying we've all been proved wrong in out beliefs, I have every right to ask for a frame of reference and evidence other than Fox News. When hate crime is rocketing in my home country, I have every right to refute the words of people who say otherwise yet have no evidence to prove it.


When a person gives nothing of themselves to a debate, yet seeks to disrupt, antagonise and ridicule others, they become just a noise. In this particular debate, Phos has behaved like a hyperactive 3yr old at a funeral.


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Skip the mansplaining bit please, I find it tedious.
Haven't got the foggiest idea what mansplaining is! But whilst we're discussing tedious, please drop the colonial references. Never had them from my family in Winnipeg, Toronto or Sault St.Marie, so they're tiresome coming from a stranger.
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  #4834  
Old 30.08.2016, 08:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Naw, its global politics, not personal. So I'll pass on your personal questions. I typically ignore those.
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This is about the EU and Brexit, MOD! All the whining you could muster doesn't really change what has already happened. I think you folks need to deal with that. Get therapy if you need to.
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The results and methods of both campaigns are two distinct issues now that it is done. Even the result and the repercussions are different as well. Now that the result is in fact settled, I posed a question on whether Bremainers would find intentional harm against the UK acceptable. But then they squealed and cried again.

I thought they got over it by now.

NooBs, I started off with the "Are the Swiss Racist?" thread. I find it amusing to watch people try to defend their losing positions.
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Its not intentional at all on my part, as I don't know nor care what riles them up or doesn't. I'll just make a point and challenge theirs. That is what a discussion is about.

I actually like my thoughts and opinion on such matters challenged, although this lot shows very little capability of challenging when they have to resort to personal responses.

But I do know the last pages have been about closing down a line of discussion they have problems with losing. For me, its just a demonstration of the same snowflake attributes reported all around all along.
Good to know you are above personal comments

"I do know the last pages have been about closing down a line of discussion they have problems with losing. "
You complain that some people are trying to close down the discussion but you try the same approach by insulting people who have different opinions to discourage them from posting (e,g whining, squealing, snowflake, etc.)

You ask a question that has the stated assumption that people are bitter about losing and then act surprised that you get no answers; it is a typical "how often do you beat your wife" type of question.
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  #4835  
Old 30.08.2016, 09:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Let's get one thing straight shall we?

My school of thought is that you don't have to be a heroin addict to have a valid opinion on the disadvantages of taking class A drugs.


As far as Brexit goes, I haunted www.newsnow.co.uk for weeks as it's my news source of choice. I spent far too long reading opinions from all around the World in the hope that I would find a political parallel somewhere.


I asked for a frame of reference from Phos because I've seen the same person be asked the same question many times since about January, and refuse an answer every time. I've asked him myself before, many months ago. It really riled me when Phos said he wasn't interested in marton's opinion because I've seen him use this tack too many times in the past to shut people down for daring to answer a question he's posed.


Whenever we have a serious debate where people are sharing real experiences, hopes and fears, he pipes up with some banal remark and ridicules the other people who hold different opinions to him.


What you have seen me do throughout the pages of this thread, is wear my heart on my sleeve. This really matters to me and to millions of other people. It's had a huge impact on my life for a year now, and will continue to do so for years to come. This result is affecting every financial decision I make, and has put elements of my future on hold indefinitely. This isn't just a talking point. It's real and it's having a massive impact, so when someone comes flitting along saying we've all been proved wrong in out beliefs, I have every right to ask for a frame of reference and evidence other than Fox News. When hate crime is rocketing in my home country, I have every right to refute the words of people who say otherwise yet have no evidence to prove it.


When a person gives nothing of themselves to a debate, yet seeks to disrupt, antagonise and ridicule others, they become just a noise. In this particular debate, Phos has behaved like a hyperactive 3yr old at a funeral.



Haven't got the foggiest idea what mansplaining is! But whilst we're discussing tedious, please drop the colonial references. Never had them from my family in Winnipeg, Toronto or Sault St.Marie, so they're tiresome coming from a stranger.
In my school of thought, when you challenge someone to justify or clarify their interpretation of your own argument, and they respond with a sentence by sentence explanation, you either correct their interpretation of your words and arguments, or agree that their understanding of your point has some validity.

I am not aware of a parallel myself. The closest I can think of is the separatist referenda in Canada, but that is closer to the Scottish referendum. One of the differences between the two with respect to Brexit is that there were almost no calls to dismantle the democratic process in the aftermath, as there seemed to be in the Brexit aftermath. There were various changes in Canada, both legal and societal, but though these are not without controversy, they didn't tear the country apart. Please note, I am not saying "Canada did it better.", but rather "The closest parallel isn't very parallel, and the aftermath is anyway different."

I don't particularly like Phos's tone myself, I find it to be escalatory, in the sense that it reliably provokes a visceral escalation. For this reason, I generally call him on a point of substance, or ask him to provide one. So far, like Loz and many other EFers, I have had a reasonably clear answer when I when my challenge has had anything to do with the argument that Phos was actually presenting.

With all due respect, you can't have spent much time online in the last decade or so if you really haven't the foggiest idea what "mansplaining" means. As you yourself claim to have spent a lot of time online in the past decade, I suspect you are being at least one of: economical with the truth, ironical, or refusing to deal with a criticism.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick about my "colonials" poke (it was indeed at least partly a poke). Your relatives who live in Canada are highly unlikely to regard themselves as Colonials, your relatives and acquaintances in the UK may or may not (the little remaining family of mine who still live in the UK rarely ever did, except to make a joke, and since they are mostly in Liverpool...)

To get back to the Brexit issue, my opinion is that it revealed a tension between the public and the "ruling classes" (by which I mean Politicians) which has been festering for a very long time (I think this summer will eventually be known as "the summer of discontent"). I also believe that the politicans in the remain campaign never seriously entertained the thought that they might lose - this from the way they went about presenting their side, but mostly from the dazed look of disbelief that I believe to have seen on their faces immediately after the vote. Brexit has, and will continue to have, significant effect on the UK not just financially. I wager that, long term, things will settle down and the economy will perform about as well as it can given the forces of the internal and external markets but anyone who believed that Brexit would have no, or exclusively positive effects was apparently not paying attention. The oddest thing is that Brexit may well prompt change within the EU which ultimately have more positive effect there (possibly even sooner) than the failures which the UK seems to think they were addressing with Brexit, but this remains to be seen.

One of the things that Phos is on about is precisely this gap between politics and the best interests of the citizenry. I don't like the "drink the coolaid" claim myself, but it is a handy shorthand for a phenomenon which I also perceive.

So, have I put my heart on my sleeve sufficiently clearly now, or failed to respond to any of your points?
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Last edited by JagWaugh; 30.08.2016 at 09:26. Reason: a minor (possibly one of many) grammatical error
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  #4836  
Old 30.08.2016, 09:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In my school of thought, when you challenge someone to justify or clarify their interpretation of your own argument, and they respond with a sentence by sentence explanation, you either correct their interpretation of your words and arguments, or agree that their understanding of your point has some validity.

I am not aware of a parallel myself. The closest I can think of is the separatist referenda in Canada, but that is closer to the Scottish referendum. One of the differences between the two with respect to Brexit is that there were almost no calls to dismantle the democratic process in the aftermath, as there seemed to be in the Brexit aftermath. There were various changes in Canada, both legal and societal, but though these are not without controversy, they didn't tear the country apart. Please note, I am not saying "Canada did it better.", but rather "The closest parallel isn't very parallel, and the aftermath is anyway different."

I don't particularly like Phos's tone myself, I find it to be escalatory, in the sense that it reliably provokes a visceral escalation. For this reason, I generally call him on a point of substance, or ask him to provide one. So far, like Loz and many other EFers, I have had a reasonably clear answer when I when my challenge has had anything to do with the argument that Phos was actually presenting.

With all due respect, you can't have spent much time online in the last decade or so if you really haven't the foggiest idea what "mansplaining" means. As you yourself claim to have spent a lot of time online in the past decade, I suspect you are being at least one of: economical with the truth, ironical, or refusing to deal with a criticism.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick about my "colonials" poke (it was indeed at least partly a poke). Your relatives who live in Canada are highly unlikely to regard themselves as Colonials, your relatives and acquaintances in the UK may or may not (the little remaining family of mine who still live in the UK rarely ever did, except to make a joke, and since they are mostly in Liverpool...)

To get back to the Brexit issue, my opinion is that it revealed a tension between the public and the "ruling classes" (by which I mean Politicians) which has been festering for a very long time (I think this summer will eventually be known as "the summer of discontent"). I also believe that the politicans in the leave campaign never seriously entertained the thought that they might lose - this from the way they went about presenting their side, but mostly from the dazed look of disbelief that I believe to have seen on their faces immediately after the vote. Brexit has, and will continue to have, significant effect on the UK not just financially. I wager that, long term, things will settle down and the economy will perform about as well as it can given the forces of the internal and external markets but anyone who believed that Brexit would have no, or exclusively positive effects was apparently not paying attention. The oddest thing is that Brexit may well prompt change within the EU which ultimately have more positive effect there (possibly even sooner) than the failures which the UK seems to think they were addressing with Brexit, but this remains to be seen.

One of the things that Phos is on about is precisely this gap between politics and the best interests of the citizenry. I don't like the "drink the coolaid" claim myself, but it is a handy shorthand for a phenomenon which I also perceive.

So, have I put my heart on my sleeve sufficiently clearly now, or failed to respond to any of your points?
"calls to dismantle the democratic process in the aftermath" Could you explain what you mean?
I have heard calls to have a second referendum because the result was so close but that is following the democratic process, or not?
Many countries have had multiple referenda when the result of the first one was close; even here in Switzerland they have collected enough signatures to rerun the immigration initiative referendum.

"you really haven't the foggiest idea what "mansplaining" means." but you do not explain it either, or can't you
I have been a member of various fora for 18 years but I also have no clue what this term means.

"this gap between politics and the best interests of the citizenr" The basic issue is what actually are "the best interests of the citizens" and how do you decide what they are?
If you have to give them nasty tasting medicine or make severe financial savings then that may well be in their best interests but they are unlikely to vote for it?
As the Communist states demonstrated if you try to share everything equally then you soon find there is not enough to go around and everybody is forced into the underclass
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Old 30.08.2016, 09:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Mansplaining. Funny thing is, I always thought Blueangel was female, and JagWaugh male, but apparently it's the other way around. The internet, eh?!
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Old 30.08.2016, 10:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"calls to dismantle the democratic process in the aftermath" Could you explain what you mean?
I have heard calls to have a second referendum because the result was so close but that is following the democratic process, or not?
Many countries have had multiple referenda when the result of the first one was close; even here in Switzerland they have collected enough signatures to rerun the immigration initiative referendum.

"you really haven't the foggiest idea what "mansplaining" means." but you do not explain it either, or can't you
I have been a member of various fora for 18 years but I also have no clue what this term means.

"this gap between politics and the best interests of the citizenr" The basic issue is what actually are "the best interests of the citizens" and how do you decide what they are?
If you have to give them nasty tasting medicine or make severe financial savings then that may well be in their best interests but they are unlikely to vote for it?
As the Communist states demonstrated if you try to share everything equally then you soon find there is not enough to go around and everybody is forced into the underclass
Marton,
"Calls to dismantle":
There was a vote, and it was decided by a small margin, I saw more media coverage of people who wanted to revote because they a) didn't understand that their vote would have consequences, b) didn't accept that they weren't in the majority. I saw very, very few complaints that the margin was so close that a recount might be in order, or that the design of the vote was poor, given the magnitude of the implications. The various lines of reasoning about ways to block Brexit from being implemented are, to my mind, undemocratic in the sense that they start from the premis that when the population has voted there are still ways and means to ignore that vote. Even the call for a new referendum is problematical to my mind. Calls for a referendum to approve or disapprove whatever deal the government comes up with could easily turn into a slippery slope - it really isn't practical to have the government put every single decision to a referendum.

"Mansplaining"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining
I used it specifically in the sense of:
Quote:
To explain something to someone, typically a man to woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing
Would you agree that likening Phos to "a hyperactive 3yr old at a funeral" is condescending? It is roughly the same as "quiet now, the grown ups are speaking.".

"Best interests"
I've never believed in Communism, It has always seemed to be complete rubbish to me, from a theoretical, economical, and practical standpoint. I do believe that the fall of communism has left a gaping hole in some western democracies, as it would seem that after almost 100 years of ideological dichotomy, the argument "Communism failed, capitalism won, therefore unabridged capitalism must necessarily be a good thing" seems to be valid. I disagree. My main complaint is that in some western democracies, politics seems to be acting as a power unto itself, and in that sense, I see little difference to any totalitarian scheme, except that the totalitarians may be substituted with fresh ones with every general election. Combine the almost universal belief by each voter that he or she pays too much tax, and that a national debt should somehow magically disappear, possibly from revenue raised from the other voters who pay too litte, or curtailing all benefits and subsidies to any person or sector which contributes less than they benefit, combine that childish view with politicians who pander precisely to this ideology and things aren't likely to turn out to anyone's best interest.

I don't claim to have a solution, I do claim to see a dangerous trend. I am reminded of Harry Tuttle's line in Brazil: "Happiness, we're all in it together".
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  #4839  
Old 30.08.2016, 10:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just a word to people who may not know, Britain hasn't experienced a cluster of events in politics such as happened in late June, in my lifetime. The venom when I'm over there, is palpable, and the circus is due to start again in a few weeks. I have to go back for a few weeks to attend to business in the UK, but haven't booked my flights yet because the thought of it fills me with dread. I'll be safe with my friends and family, but there are people I will be avoiding like the plague.
Ironically, you can see how you yourself are the source of the venom you mention. Just read through the last pages.


Hang on folks, just catching up this morning. Will respond to other notes if I find them worthwhile or funny. I promise.
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Old 30.08.2016, 10:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"it would have been a land slide" landslide = 52%?
Blair won a "landslide" in 1997 on 42% of the vote. Even less when you consider the turnout was 70%. No one questioned the result of that election.

There's no argument to be made, this referendum was conclusive. 1.3 million more ballot papers say so.
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