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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4881  
Old 30.08.2016, 16:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Farage deserves to be knighted. Perhaps when he is no longer an active political figure.
If he follows his purported beliefs and attitudes, he'd tell them to stick their titles - he likes to maintain his persona of one of the boys with a pie and a pint, certainly not one of the fat-cat Westminster old boys' elite with titles...
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  #4882  
Old 30.08.2016, 16:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"He [Farage] always told off passive, rich, arrogant, pedant...politicians in the EU."

Poor poor Mr Farage; as an MEP he continues to be quite well paid even after the Brexit referendum until the un-foreseeable future.

Salary £84,000 annually (healthy increase as it is paid in euros and the pound has crashed)
a non-contributory pension scheme

Expenses
  • €304 a day "subsistence" allowance for when they're on official business
  • For their office costs, MEPs can claim a general allowance of €4,299 a month
  • MEPs can claim up to €21,209 a month for staffing costs (they are now "discouraged" from hiring family members)
  • first class/business class travel in the EU
  • extra travel allowance of up to €4,243 for trips outside of the EU
  • two thirds of any medical bills (including Viagra)
  • All MEPs are entitled to a "golden goodbye" of at least £39,000 to help them settle back into the real world if not re-elected. That is higher depending on how long you served as an MEP.
hu?
So?
He's not having a preferential treatment but same as others, where's the problem?

Also I did not make him the focus of the debate, only that he was one of the rare to fight against other politicians.

You seem to have problem because I used "rich" referring to other European MPs... A bit simplistic term to refer to their attitude of "we're better than the dumb citizen, we are ignoring the life outside our golden lifestyle".
Even that might be not very accurate but that's more or less the idea.

I don't care about Mr Farage salary and the likes, it's not 20min or dailymail here!
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  #4883  
Old 30.08.2016, 16:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If he follows his purported beliefs and attitudes, he'd tell them to stick their titles - he likes to maintain his persona of one of the boys with a pie and a pint, certainly not one of the fat-cat Westminster old boys' elite with titles...
Really? I didn't take Farage to be anti-Royalist. I thought he was for all things uniquely British; CoE and Royalty amongst them. I associated Republicanism more with the Labour Party. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So this is one of the things I appreciate about all this, as I do have a penchant for British culture. Not to say I like ALL Brits. Many are pretty thick. Just things about its culture and history. Looking forward to see it bloom after Brexit.
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  #4884  
Old 30.08.2016, 16:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Really? I didn't take Farage to be anti-Royalist. I thought he was for all things uniquely British; CoE and Royalty amongst them. I associated Republicanism more with the Labour Party. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nah, you could be right - he's a bit of a paradox. Wants to be one of the boys and the voice of the oppressed, distancing himself from the faceless fat-cats, etc., but yes perhaps he'd feel the glory of the blade of her Madge on his shoulders...

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So this is one of the things I appreciate about all this, as I do have a penchant for British culture. Not to say I like ALL Brits. Many are pretty thick. Just things about its culture and history. Looking forward to see it bloom after Brexit.
Well, nobody likes everybody otherwise you would be a Labrador and there are thick people everywhere. But, in my limited life experience I've found you have to work pretty hard to find someone who is 100% thick. Most people can outshine someone with some tiny aspect of their being.
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  #4885  
Old 30.08.2016, 16:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nah, you could be right - he's a bit of a paradox. Wants to be one of the boys and the voice of the oppressed, distancing himself from the faceless fat-cats, etc., but yes perhaps he'd feel the glory of the blade of her Madge on his shoulders...
That's putting it mildly.
Wants to restrict EU immigration yet is married to an EU immigrant. Only Trump has outdone him on that score by twice being married to an immigrant.

Wants to restrict the influence of the City, yet worked in the city.

Wants to leave the EU whilst being an MEP and the EU pays his wages.

That's one hell of a paradox.
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  #4886  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's putting it mildly.
Wants to restrict EU immigration yet is married to an EU immigrant. Only Trump has outdone him on that score by twice being married to an immigrant.

Wants to restrict the influence of the City, yet worked in the city.

Wants to leave the EU whilst being an MEP and the EU pays his wages.

That's one hell of a paradox.

Doesn't sound like an extremist at all then. Sounds like a wise cat who isn't self-consumed by his own dogma.
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  #4887  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's putting it mildly.
Wants to restrict EU immigration yet is married to an EU immigrant. Only Trump has outdone him on that score by twice being married to an immigrant.

Wants to restrict the influence of the City, yet worked in the city.

Wants to leave the EU whilst being an MEP and the EU pays his wages.

That's one hell of a paradox.
There's a difference between mixing with EU people and restricting migration...
One can work in a given place and not liking it or realizing its problems.
As for the MP thing, they're representing their countries within the EU. Again, whats the problem?

Do you want only pro EU people in the EU? Sounds like a bit too much to me...
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  #4888  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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All the campaign promises by the Leave campaigners were made by people who did not have any remit deliver them. Presumably they made these promises with the expectation that voters would believe them and vote accordingly?
  • Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week
  • A vote for leave will be a vote to cut immigration
  • Five million more migrants could enter Britain by 2030 if Turkey and four other applicant countries join the EU
  • Article 50 will be triggered immediately

From the New Statesman "Leave camp promised us all a unicorn and now claim they merely hinted at the possibility of a pony."

The leave website was cleared the day after the Referendum but thanks to web archive here we can still read the Leave campaign manifesto
  • We stop handing over £350 million a week to Brussels
  • We take back control of our borders and can kick out violent criminals
  • We take back the power to kick out the people who make our laws
  • We decide what we spend our own money on
  • We free our businesses from damaging EU laws and regulations
  • We take back the power to make our own trade deals
  • We have better relations with our European friends
  • We regain our influence in the wider world and become a truly global nation once again
Every point on that manifesto to is still valid. Further still, no where on it does it promise to give £350 million a week to the NHS, it just gives an example of what could be done with the money.

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"He [Farage] always told off passive, rich, arrogant, pedant...politicians in the EU."

Poor poor Mr Farage; as an MEP he continues to be quite well paid even after the Brexit referendum until the un-foreseeable future.

Salary £84,000 annually (healthy increase as it is paid in euros and the pound has crashed)
a non-contributory pension scheme

Expenses
  • €304 a day "subsistence" allowance for when they're on official business
  • For their office costs, MEPs can claim a general allowance of €4,299 a month
  • MEPs can claim up to €21,209 a month for staffing costs (they are now "discouraged" from hiring family members)
  • first class/business class travel in the EU
  • extra travel allowance of up to €4,243 for trips outside of the EU
  • two thirds of any medical bills (including Viagra)
  • All MEPs are entitled to a "golden goodbye" of at least £39,000 to help them settle back into the real world if not re-elected. That is higher depending on how long you served as an MEP.
All MEPs are on the same deal, and it's another good thing the UK won't be contributing to these extortionate salaries.
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  #4889  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Would you agree that likening Phos to "a hyperactive 3yr old at a funeral" is condescending? It is roughly the same as "quiet now, the grown ups are speaking.".
Not at all.

If you take Britain's EU membership as being the cadaver in the open casket, the hyperactive 3yr old is prodding at the cadaver to the dismay and horror of the mourners who are still trying to make sense of the situation and somehow, find solace.
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  #4890  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's putting it mildly.
Wants to restrict EU immigration yet is married to an EU immigrant. Only Trump has outdone him on that score by twice being married to an immigrant.

Wants to restrict the influence of the City, yet worked in the city.

Wants to leave the EU whilst being an MEP and the EU pays his wages.

That's one hell of a paradox.
Sorry when I wrote "paradox" I should have written "crashing hypocrite". Damn you, autotactfulness
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  #4891  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not at all.

If you take Britain's EU membership as being the cadaver in the open casket, the hyperactive 3yr old is prodding at the cadaver to the dismay and horror of the mourners who are still trying to make sense of the situation and somehow, find solace.
On EF? For solace? Who died?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MnU6p3sGSw
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  #4892  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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On EF? For solace? Who died?
Democracy died (a long time ago in fact...). It's just some weirdos playing with her remains... Like contesting a referendum's legitimate result because it's against your opinion and views...
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  #4893  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Here's what GB should be singing to Europe now, after the brexit

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  #4894  
Old 30.08.2016, 17:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Democracy died (a long time ago in fact...). It's just some weirdos playing with her remains... Like contesting a referendum's legitimate result because it's against your opinion and views...
So, these nations that hold elections or referendums where the turn out is over 90% and the incumbent leader is re-elected for the umpteenth term with over 90% of the vote despite the country falling to bits, raging unemployment and crippling inflation, and you or your family "disappears" if it speaks out against the election or the leader is, by definition, a democracy because it allows its population a vote?

Not saying the UK is in this boat by a very long chalk but the circumstances under which people were making their decision on the EU was hardly a balanced, subjective, fair or well informed environment.

There's democracy and there's democracy.
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  #4895  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Here's what GB should be singing to Europe now, after the brexit
Why (apart from it being Elton John and therefore to be despised that is)? May I remind you Brexit hasn't actually happened yet.
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  #4896  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Some nice points Marton.

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"Who is to say such improvements would not have been made without the EU?" Well so far nobody has stood up and promised to continue delivering the same level of funding to the poorer parts of Britain that the EU are/were delivering.
And my feeling is that a bureaucrat in Brussels will do a better job than a politican in London. I really don't trust that lot in London (expenses scandal was just a few years back...).

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Statements have been made that funding will continue for science projects and farmers but nothing said about continuing the improvement grants so your question has been answered.
Keeping farming subsidies makes me laugh - the UK has been complaining about the CAP for years. And faming subsidies - great non means-tested handouts for the few (but it's the rich and well connected, so that's ok, not hoi paloi poor), way to go.

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"Which is really the problem with a centralized planning community like the EU" Well after Brexit the planning will be centralized at a national level: probably done by the same people who currently advise the EU about UK planning needs so not much difference!
BTW if you have ever enjoyed going onto a beach or swimming in the sea in the UK, it's mostly due to the EU that today it is safe:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e-for-my-beach

Last edited by c123; 30.08.2016 at 18:36. Reason: The beach... it's Summer.
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  #4897  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why (apart from it being Elton John and therefore to be despised that is)? May I remind you Brexit hasn't actually happened yet.
Because doomsday was supposed to happen if the referendum's outcome was "no". Something real and immediate like financial market's collapse, currency losing a lot of value, etc...
True, nothing happened really just a candle in the wind.
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  #4898  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Farage deserves to be knighted. Perhaps when he is no longer an active political figure.
Absolutely not, in any way, a trolling post.
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  #4899  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Because doomsday was supposed to happen if the referendum's outcome was "no". Something real and immediate like financial market's collapse, currency losing a lot of value, etc...
True, nothing happened really just a candle in the wind.
More like candlestick chart in the market.
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  #4900  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Doesn't sound like an extremist at all then. Sounds like a wise cat who isn't self-consumed by his own dogma.
Sounds more like a populist opportunist who is cluelessly unaware of his own disingenuity, to me.
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