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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #5281  
Old 14.09.2016, 01:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah Yes, the make it up as you go along constitution in play once again
The whole thing is new and potentially a legal minefield.
We are all in the same boat.

Reminds me of the quote "may God bless her and all those who sail in her"
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  #5282  
Old 14.09.2016, 02:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I'm intruiged by this bit...

Quote:
49.
A delay in triggering Article 50 in order to allow time for informal negotiations,
or to allow Parliament and Government an opportunity to discuss and agree
a vision of the UK’s new relationship with the EU, should not be mistaken
as an attempt to reject the result of the referendum. Public perception is
important, however. It may therefore be helpful for Parliament as a whole
to acknowledge the referendum result in any legislation or resolution and to
instruct the Government to start making the necessary arrangements for the
withdrawal of the UK from the EU—whilst making it clear that Article 50 is
an intermediate stage in that process, and not the start point
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  #5283  
Old 14.09.2016, 03:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The whole thing is new and potentially a legal minefield.
We are all in the same boat.

Reminds me of the quote "may God bless her and all those who sail in her"
On the contrary it is very basic stuff - the UK supposedly has a sovereign parliament, yet the PM intends to ignore the parliament and act on an advisory referendum possibly in breach of an act of parliament establishing the UK's membership of the EU.

It could very well happen that when the PM attempts to invoke article 50 that someone could get an injunction preventing her from doing so after all if the so called constitution required parliament's consent to join, it follows that parliament's consent is needed to invoke the exit clause and it could be argued that parliament fully expected this since they made the referendum advisory in the first place when passing the legislation providing for the referendum.
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  #5284  
Old 14.09.2016, 03:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm intruiged by this bit...
It's rubbish! The U.K. Parliament does not get to interpret the EU treaty, that is the role of the EU judiciary.
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  #5285  
Old 14.09.2016, 13:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Junker's speech was quite hilarious today:

"There are splits out there and often fragmentation exists … That is leaving scope for galloping populism"

So what's the remedy for that Jean-Claude?

"MOAR EUROPE, WE NEED AN ARMY!"

I would laugh that he'll be losing his job in the coming months, however I know what he'll get instead.
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  #5286  
Old 14.09.2016, 13:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The UK should make Jean-Claude Junker a Lord of the realm, that should keep him quiet, and give him the status he obviously craves.
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  #5287  
Old 14.09.2016, 13:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Some more highlights:

"We Europeans can never accept Polish workers being beaten up, harassed or even murdered in the streets of Essex"

Although we'll happily accept European women being raped in the streets of Cologne.
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  #5288  
Old 14.09.2016, 13:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So Juncker's plan of "uniting" Europe is by relegating anyone who doesn't agree with him to a basket of "deplorable" people, which could very well be the majority of europeans.

Seriously, who buys this sh*t? Apart from Guardian devotees, that is.
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  #5289  
Old 14.09.2016, 16:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Junkers long speech about the state of the EU should be read and digested by every politician in Europe. It is lacking in positive ideas about youth unemployment, inward migration etc etc. To say the EU needs to create jobs and strengthen the outside borders is obvious, but that's it!

He agrees that "something must be done about all the problems in Europe" but fails to give a lead, except "we need a HQ for the European Army". I propose it should be situated on the Spanish - French border, and then the EU could declare itself neutral, just as Switzerland does.
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  #5290  
Old 14.09.2016, 16:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Looking at the EU's success rate in solving real problems, the old formula of simply making a magnanimous speech has stopped functioning a long time ago. This leaves me to believe that these problems Juncker is finally acknowledging really won't be getting fixed either. In fact, it may portend that their biggest fears will likely occur.
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  #5291  
Old 14.09.2016, 16:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Junkers long speech about the state of the EU should be read and digested by every politician in Europe. It is lacking in positive ideas about youth unemployment, inward migration etc etc. To say the EU needs to create jobs and strengthen the outside borders is obvious, but that's it!

He agrees that "something must be done about all the problems in Europe" but fails to give a lead, except "we need a HQ for the European Army". I propose it should be situated on the Spanish - French border, and then the EU could declare itself neutral, just as Switzerland does.

The problem is that most people really don't want more EU than a common currency (and no tariffs). And even for the common currency, to make it actually work long-time, very much more integration would be necessary.
But people don't want to give up "X" (where X is anything like their own military, their own tax-authority, their own social security services) or have others participate in (="profit from") them.

In the past, EU integration-problems were just solved by throwing money at them (usually meaning: a country opposing some idea was "bribed" into accepting a compromise by giving them something else)
Those were small problems and comparatively little money was involved.
But it all added up. And now we are at a stage where a little money on the side doesn't cut it anymore. Or it's fundamental issues that money can't solve. Some people will be worse-off. But that's against the narrative of any EU-government.
Politicians have lost the ability to sell hardships to people.
So, the problem gets dragged out.
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  #5292  
Old 15.09.2016, 10:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So Juncker wants to
-Buy every 18 year old a train ticket
-Free WiFi in every village
-Protect EU telecom by taxing US tech companies out of competition

Looks like nationalism and populism at the EU level. I don't think he understands that people see him as the problem, not the solution.

His speech can be summarized as, "Give me more power!"
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  #5293  
Old 15.09.2016, 10:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So Juncker wants to
-Buy every 18 year old a train ticket
-Free WiFi in every village
-Protect EU telecom by taxing US tech companies out of competition

Looks like nationalism and populism at the EU level. I don't think he understands that people see him as the problem, not the solution.

His speech can be summarized as, "Give me more power!"
Free WiFi...when are people ever going to learn, nothing is for free?! The EU has no money, just YOUR money.

The Telegraph pretty much nailed it:

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  #5294  
Old 15.09.2016, 10:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So Juncker wants to
-Buy every 18 year old a train ticket
-Free WiFi in every village
Well, if (young) people can sit around and browse Facebook, follow a few celebrities on Twitter or download pics n videos of cats (or whatever), they won't go out on the streets and protest.

Panem et circensis.
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  #5295  
Old 15.09.2016, 10:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Farage on good form yesterday too:

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  #5296  
Old 15.09.2016, 14:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well, if (young) people can sit around and browse Facebook, follow a few celebrities on Twitter or download pics n videos of cats (or whatever), they won't go out on the streets and protest.
Perhaps it would be better for democracy if no-one used Twitter or Facebook or had internet access or watched TV, especially the likes of X factor or reality shows. You just have to see the quality of the "debate" during the referendum campaign and the Labour leadership campaign. Snappy soundbites like on Twitter (at least on the Leave "take back control" and Corbyn "Jeremy for Labour" sides - if the other sides had anything snappy and memorable I can't remember seeing it). Yah boo debates, like those held by the BBC with the audience split 50-50. One person speaks and half the audience applauds and cheers while the other half sits on their hands, the other person speaks and the other half applauds and some cheer and boo (or laugh, e.g. when Smith speaks). The applause is automatic whenever "their man" speaks. No-one's really listening, especially to the other side. So childish. I can't imagine audiences behaving like that in the past.
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  #5297  
Old 15.09.2016, 21:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

A Brexit bolthole? For €100 you can become an e-resident of an EU country you've never visited.

There’s a short application form, a €100 (£84) fee, and with a few clicks of a button you could be a digital resident of a country you’ve never set foot in.

Estonia’s e-residency initiative – offering foreigners the chance to base their business and finances digitally in the tiny Baltic state – is proving as easy as it is popular.

Source

Not really sure what the benefits are?
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  #5298  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What's the legal consequence of being an "e-citizen"?
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Old 16.09.2016, 15:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Its becoming more and more apparent that Brexit's Project Fear was not about the fragility of the UK, but the fragility of the EU:
Bratislava EU meeting: Merkel says bloc in 'critical situation'
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Old 17.09.2016, 09:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The UK office of one of the world’s leading technology firms, Skype, is to close, it has been reported.

The reports that one of the most valuable “unicorns” – those tech firms valued at more than $1bn (£768m) – in Europe is to scale down its presence in London, will come as a blow at a time when the UK is trying to position itself as an attractive option after the Brexit vote.

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