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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #5361  
Old 20.09.2016, 22:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7319261.html

Really good study, shows what happened. It wasn't about Europe, it was about sneering middle and upper classes looking down in the poor and after years of neglect, the poor finally got a voice.

Doesn't mean it's the right decision (leave or stay) but it's a great finding.
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  #5362  
Old 20.09.2016, 22:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7319261.html

Really good study, shows what happened. It wasn't about Europe, it was about sneering middle and upper classes looking down in the poor and after years of neglect, the poor finally got a voice.

Doesn't mean it's the right decision (leave or stay) but it's a great finding.
Isn't that premised on an assumption that everybody wants more government taxing and spending? Does it fail to take into account that maybe some people don't want more taxing and spending?
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  #5363  
Old 20.09.2016, 22:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Isn't that premised on an assumption that everybody wants more government taxing and spending? Does it fail to take into account that maybe some people don't want more taxing and spending?
No, it didn't investigate that angle that wasn't the purpose. As it says this is the amount of proportional investment per person with the current tax system. So if they got 1000 pounds in tax they spent 600 pounds on London and 400 on humberside when population and income figures are scaled accordingly.
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  #5364  
Old 20.09.2016, 23:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Adding another layer of administration increases costs and so makes them less competitive?
Perhaps, but as London is the world centre of finance, that is a great value for banks staying in put in London even if the UK financial sector's regulatory costs increase for business with EU countries.

What are the real alternative locations? As much as I like Ireland and want to see it do well, Dublin might get a few relocations but certainly won't be faced with a tidal wave, which it couldn't absorb anyway, and the regulatory environments of the other EU countries aren't nearly as good as the UK's, nor do they speak English or practice the common law.
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  #5365  
Old 21.09.2016, 00:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7319261.html

Really good study, shows what happened. It wasn't about Europe, it was about sneering middle and upper classes looking down in the poor and after years of neglect, the poor finally got a voice.

Doesn't mean it's the right decision (leave or stay) but it's a great finding.
I agree this is a good Fabian Society study.

My only question is that strangely it seems to ignore that a number (most?) of those UK Govt. underfunded areas that voted Leave did very well out of EU grants (a total of 1.7bn euros (£1.3bn) in 2014 alone) which they have basically voted against receiving in the future.

These regions include;
North East
Cornwall and the Isle of Scilly,
Merseyside
South Yorkshire
West and South Wales
Midlands

So far nobody has committed to replacing this EU funding.

The area of England with the smallest share of EU grants was London and the South East.

You should note from the Fabian Society web site their primary aim is;
"Facing the Future - re-imagining Labour’s purpose, modernising Labour’s organisation, and winning public trust."
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  #5366  
Old 21.09.2016, 00:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Perhaps, but as London is the world centre of finance, that is a great value for banks staying in put in London even if the UK financial sector's regulatory costs increase for business with EU countries.

What are the real alternative locations? As much as I like Ireland and want to see it do well, Dublin might get a few relocations but certainly won't be faced with a tidal wave, which it couldn't absorb anyway, and the regulatory environments of the other EU countries aren't nearly as good as the UK's, nor do they speak English or practice the common law.
"nor do they speak English " Well since these countries are the customers of the Banks then the banks must have found a way to communicate with them?

"the regulatory environments of the other EU countries aren't nearly as good as the UK'" Quote - Frankfurt’s Brexit Pitch: We’ll Make It Easy to Fire Bankers
Source
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  #5367  
Old 21.09.2016, 00:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"nor do they speak English " Well since these countries are the customers of the Banks then the banks must have found a way to communicate with them?

"the regulatory environments of the other EU countries aren't nearly as good as the UK'" Quote - Frankfurt’s Brexit Pitch: We’ll Make It Easy to Fire Bankers
Source
...as a national/native language, obviously. This would be a problem for staffing. And having dealt with clients in English, it's one thing to be a client dealing with a bank in English their English-as-a-second-language - quite another to be the lawyer explaining a tax principle in English to a client, let alone drafting contracts in English, etc.
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  #5368  
Old 21.09.2016, 02:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Since when did EU regulations and directives apply directly to a third country and go even further by granting them access to the single market??? MiFID II will cover EEA members who have access to the single market so does the author assume that the UK will become an EEA member???
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  #5369  
Old 21.09.2016, 02:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...as a national/native language, obviously. This would be a problem for staffing. And having dealt with clients in English, it's one thing to be a client dealing with a bank in English their English-as-a-second-language - quite another to be the lawyer explaining a tax principle in English to a client, let alone drafting contracts in English, etc.
As it stands UK law qualifications will not be recognized and UK lawyers will no longer have a right of audience at EU courts. Furthermore the UK will need to get agreement on data sharing as it will no longer automatically qualify as before... An a trivia point English will no longer be an official language of the EU since it is not the state language of any member! But I expect that is easily fixed
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  #5370  
Old 21.09.2016, 10:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Since when did EU regulations and directives apply directly to a third country and go even further by granting them access to the single market??? MiFID II will cover EEA members who have access to the single market so does the author assume that the UK will become an EEA member???
The analysts assume that business needs "will lead to the preservation of most cross-border rights to undertake business"

So effectively, the headline is based on otherwise unfounded projections and assumptions. As evidenced by Mark Boleat:

"For some retail banks it is of almost no real importance. But for the whole of international investment banking and an institution such as [insurance market] Lloyd's of London it [passporting] is an absolute necessity."
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  #5371  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Instead of attacking other EF members who are simply posting facts why don't you simply post the latest good news about Brexit?
Posting links to the latest Guardian moan piece doesn't constitute "facts".

Here's some more balanced reporting for your digestion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...or-theresa-ma/

Hungry about to vote on Refugee quotas, Italy bubbling away, a new party emerging in Greece, the swing to the right across northern Europe. So many factors that will have an effect on Brexit negotiations. Everything can still happen.
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  #5372  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Posting links to the latest Guardian moan piece doesn't constitute "facts".

Here's some more balanced reporting for your digestion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...or-theresa-ma/

Hungry about to vote on Refugee quotas, Italy bubbling away, a new party emerging in Greece, the swing to the right across northern Europe. So many factors that will have an effect on Brexit negotiations. Everything can still happen.
"Posting links to the latest Guardian moan piece doesn't constitute "facts".
But your posting links to a Telegraph piece does

Anyway my question was "Instead of attacking other EF members who are simply posting facts why don't you simply post the latest good news about Brexit? "

So please surprise us and post some good news to cheer us all up!
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  #5373  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"Posting links to the latest Guardian moan piece doesn't constitute "facts".
But your posting links to a Telegraph piece does
!
Have you actually read the article in question?
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  #5374  
Old 22.09.2016, 10:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So please surprise us and post some good news to cheer us all up!
Brexit is still going ahead
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  #5375  
Old 22.09.2016, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Have you actually read the article in question?
Of course; I would not post a link to a Guardian article that I had not read

The Telegraph article contains an implicit assumption that many here also have.

This is the UK can somehow agree a deal with Europe that allows the UK to stay in the single market while having the freedom to to negotiate trade deals with other countries which is a freedom that no other EU or EEA member has!
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  #5376  
Old 22.09.2016, 11:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Brexit is still going ahead
Are you sure

For example look at how the Swiss Govt has just reversed the result of the mass immigration referendum
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  #5377  
Old 22.09.2016, 11:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you sure
I don't believe Brexit will happen, though I dearly wish it would.

As I said back in June: there are too many snouts in the trough - big snouts, establishment snouts. There's no way they're going to be denied their swill.

But whatever happens, those of us who voted for Brexit will be held responsible for everything that goes wrong, even if the cause is - and always was - the EU itself.

It's depressing. Utterly depressing.
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  #5378  
Old 22.09.2016, 11:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

On a positive note, however, I've lost a couple of useless friends who decided that I was too working class to deserve their company.

They phrased it slightly (only slightly, mind) differently, but the end result is the same.

Bollocks to them. I've never been one to bow to peer pressure, even (especially) when those peers think they have my best interests at heart.
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  #5379  
Old 22.09.2016, 13:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you sure

For example look at how the Swiss Govt has just reversed the result of the mass immigration referendum
WOW!!!
Just reading this now. Thanks for the heads up Marton.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-swiss-eu-idUKKCN11R2KU


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On a positive note, however, I've lost a couple of useless friends who decided that I was too working class to deserve their company.

They phrased it slightly (only slightly, mind) differently, but the end result is the same.

Bollocks to them. I've never been one to bow to peer pressure, even (especially) when those peers think they have my best interests at heart.
Interesting.

Obviously, you and I were on opposite ends of the debate, but with the only one of my friends who wanted to seriously debate the issues at length with me, it's actually strengthened our friendship because lots of people rejected her and I didn't.

The only acquaintance who broke off ties in recent months, was over the Corbyn thing, not the EU. But as my OH said...
"If I could have placed a bet on who would be the most likely to act like a total malaka over this, I'd have won!"

I'm genuinely shocked that someone would do that to you on the working class basis. That would have got my back up.
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  #5380  
Old 22.09.2016, 13:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm genuinely shocked that someone would do that to you on the working class basis. That would have got my back up.
It doesn't surprise me at all, even if the terrible irony is that I'm thoroughly middle-class - just not the right kind of middle-class.

Established middle-class people tolerate us red-brick types with good humour when it suits - they enjoy our salty humour and quaint accents - but when push comes to shove, we're not their kind and never will be. Voting along with the "people who shop at Iceland" was the final straw.

Sheep and goats, eh?
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