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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #5601  
Old 03.10.2016, 13:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So they will hire some experts. Easy.
Announcing a plan without announcing how it will be implemented changes it from a plan to a wish.
And you know wishes are often not fulfilled.
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  #5602  
Old 03.10.2016, 14:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Now you're being picky

As things currently stand, I do believe Brexit will happen.

Knowing a little of Theresa May's character, I do believe Article 50 will be triggered before the end of March 2017.

What I don't know is what will happen between now and then, and what will come afterwards. I do believe this needs to go to Parliament. I do believe there are forces within the Government who will try to guide / force her hand in this direction. We have absolutely no control over that, unless you happen to be an expert and practising in constitutional law.
Actually I'm surprised on how clear she has been about it and also note I don't really think its a good thing. My principle belief is that democracy should occur so I got really annoyed with all the lying from both sides during the debate and am now annoyed that even though the people made this decision, which may be wrong, it should just go ahead and people are trying to find just anything they can to say it should all be stopped and reversed.

They have a plan - and the all important experts - without any doubt. you dont announce a fixed date for something to 60 million people unless you have some concrete activity in the background.
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  #5603  
Old 03.10.2016, 14:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Perhaps they'll continue labelling things in line with EU legislation, maybe sticking a Union Jack on it or something to convince people they've "taken back control".
Plus a healthy price increase to cover the costs of new labelling
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  #5604  
Old 03.10.2016, 18:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Jeremy Hunt: Let's replace foreign doctors with homegrown talent in Post-Brexit Britain

No mention of why homegrown talent should be preferential to foreign talent when it comes to standards of medical care. Does anyone really care what nationality their doctor is as long as he or she is the best?

Comment from the pro-Remain Facebook page "Healthier in the EU" which posts referendum-related news relating to the medical profession:

"Is Jeremy Hunt a *total* muppet? (rhetorical)

Here he is in the Daily Mail talking about Brexit Britain replacing foreign doctors with homegrown talent, saying no new money for NHS from Brexit promises - and feeling delighted that he squashed junior doctors. Now when it comes to "homegrown" talent, we presume he does realise that it takes 5 years, then 2 more, then specialisation for 3-8 years before you have those hospital consultants ready. And we're currently short-staffed by many thousands. So... nice plan for 2030 mate - but we're deeply concerned about this winter."
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  #5605  
Old 03.10.2016, 18:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Jeremy Hunt: Let's replace foreign doctors with homegrown talent in Post-Brexit Britain

No mention of why homegrown talent should be preferential to foreign talent when it comes to standards of medical care. Does anyone really care what nationality their doctor is as long as he or she is the best?

Maybe when it comes to surgeons and such folk it doesn't matter.


But when talking to your GP, cultural attunement can be quite important so subtle messages and signs are not missed.
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  #5606  
Old 03.10.2016, 18:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Jeremy Hunt: Let's replace foreign doctors with homegrown talent in Post-Brexit Britain

No mention of why homegrown talent should be preferential to foreign talent when it comes to standards of medical care. Does anyone really care what nationality their doctor is as long as he or she is the best?

Comment from the pro-Remain Facebook page "Healthier in the EU" which posts referendum-related news relating to the medical profession:

"Is Jeremy Hunt a *total* muppet? (rhetorical)

Here he is in the Daily Mail talking about Brexit Britain replacing foreign doctors with homegrown talent, saying no new money for NHS from Brexit promises - and feeling delighted that he squashed junior doctors. Now when it comes to "homegrown" talent, we presume he does realise that it takes 5 years, then 2 more, then specialisation for 3-8 years before you have those hospital consultants ready. And we're currently short-staffed by many thousands. So... nice plan for 2030 mate - but we're deeply concerned about this winter."
Not only that but the UK medical schools only produce 7,600 doctors per year and with ca. 40,000 foreign doctors to replace we are looking at a plan for 2040

And that assumes we can stop UK doctors emigrating; over 8,000 were seeking work abroad in 2015 Source
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  #5607  
Old 03.10.2016, 18:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But when talking to your GP, cultural attunement can be quite important so subtle messages and signs are not missed.
That's a good point but I wonder to what extent it's relevant in practice. Doctors aren't generally stupid people and if they have a good command of English and have decent interpersonal skills they should be able to communicate effectively. This could be taken to the extreme, e.g. Welsh doctors for Welsh patients and Pakistani doctors for Pakistani patients.
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  #5608  
Old 03.10.2016, 19:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not only that but the UK medical schools only produce 7,600 doctors per year and with ca. 40,000 foreign doctors to replace we are looking at a plan for 2040

And that assumes we can stop UK doctors emigrating; over 8,000 were seeking work abroad in 2015 Source
and that is not counting all those who intend to work part-time or not at all ...
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  #5609  
Old 04.10.2016, 17:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The whole thing is new and potentially a legal minefield.
We are all in the same boat.

Reminds me of the quote "may God bless her and all those who sail in her"
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On the contrary it is very basic stuff - the UK supposedly has a sovereign parliament, yet the PM intends to ignore the parliament and act on an advisory referendum possibly in breach of an act of parliament establishing the UK's membership of the EU.
Quotes
"Northern Ireland could veto its exit from the European Union, a lawyer for anti-Brexit campaigners from the region has told the high court in Belfast.

A senior barrister argued that Brexit could not be imposed on Northern Ireland and that the Good Friday agreement, ratified by a referendum in 1998, meant the province had some control over such constitutional changes".

"Sinn Féin is one of the parties to the legal challenge to Brexit"; how the world changes!

"If the UK leaves the customs union, the EU could demand a hard border in Ireland to prevent goods flowing in and out of the EU from Northern Ireland without paying required tariffs or facing checks on rules of origin."

Source

Maybe not so basic?
I suspect all sorts of people will be hunting for possible loopholes with varying degrees of success?
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  #5610  
Old 04.10.2016, 18:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Perhaps it's in the interests of Sinn Fein in NI and the SNP in Scotland to fail to prevent Brexit if their goal is a united Ireland/Scottish independence.


New immigration curbs needed 'to change tide of opinion'
I don't think that in most parts of the UK the problem is immigration so much as xenophobia stirred up by the Leave campaign/UKIP. It's not credible that just 5% of the population could be responsible for taking jobs/housing/hospital beds/school places, etc from the majority.
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  #5611  
Old 05.10.2016, 10:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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To placate the eurosceptics in the Tory party and prevent loss of votes to UKIP.
UKIP seem to be doing enough themselves to lose votes, today's news "Diane James resigns as UKIP leader after only 18 days in role"
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  #5612  
Old 05.10.2016, 11:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bremoaners: "When will Art. 50 be invoked? No one knows what's going on, we need a plan and a timeline"

May sets out time line and date for Art. 50.

Bremoaners: "Parliament should be deciding this! It's far too early! We're not ready yet!"
Not really. This is about fundamental issues, namely the rule of law itself. No action without law, and as things stand there's none.

It's clear that invoking article 50 will be challenged, which will create additional uncertainty and, probably, delay the process. And of course damage the economy.

In short, it's in both sides' best interest to have parliament do its thang. After all article 50 itself makes that condition of lawfulness.
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  #5613  
Old 05.10.2016, 12:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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UKIP seem to be doing enough themselves to lose votes, today's news "Diane James resigns as UKIP leader after only 18 days in role"
Did you see the photos and footage of her this morning? She looks ill to me. I remember her during the referendum debates and she looked a lot healthier. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something the matter there.


Jeremy Chunt can go boil his head with his latest proposals. Does any employer in the Western World have the legal right to force it's trainees to stay with the company that trained them? Even the armed forces can't do that!


The one that concerns me the most is the clampdown on foreign students. That's really cutting your nose off to spite your face on a grand scale. Can't wait to see my cousin in a few weeks, whose a dept. head at a UK uni. I bet she's freakin' livid. This could send some unis to the wall.
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  #5614  
Old 05.10.2016, 20:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Angela Merkel has significantly stiffened her stance on Brexit, telling an audience of German business leaders that any exception to the EU’s single market rules would represent “a systemic challenge for the entire European Union”.

Merkel appealed to German firms to show a united front with EU governments in negotiations over Britain’s departure from the bloc, urging them to support the principle of “full access to the single market only in exchange for signing up to the four freedoms”.

Markus Kerber, the leader of Germany’s largest industry group, said last week that trade, investments and single market solidarity with the rest of the EU were more important than the volume of business German companies do with Britain.

Jens Spahn, a senior member of her Christian Democrat Union party, confirmed the tough line, including no pre-negotiations before article 50 is triggered.

Source

Of course Merkel may anyway not be around for long after UK invokes Art. 50

Also here;
British demands received a cool response in Germany on Wednesday when Chancellor Angela Merkel said she would not compromise on the EU’s migration rules. Merkel signaled the U.K. would not get “full access to the single market” without accepting the free movement of people. She also rejected May’s request to hold preparatory talks before formal negotiations begin.

“We won’t hold any pre-negotiations, rather we’ll just say very generally that full access to the single market is tied in and inseparable from acceptance of the four fundamental freedoms, and that includes the free movement of people,” Merkel said.

Source

Hope the UK Govt. knows what it is doing, so far it looks like to be asking for things that will be very difficult to achieve
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  #5615  
Old 05.10.2016, 20:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

As if by magic:

IMF left shamefaced after peak pessimism over Brexit vote

Can anyone remember when the IMF were correct about anything?
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  #5616  
Old 05.10.2016, 20:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Angela Merkel has significantly stiffened her stance on Brexit, telling an audience of German business leaders that any exception to the EU’s single market rules would represent “a systemic challenge for the entire European Union”.

Merkel appealed to German firms to show a united front with EU governments in negotiations over Britain’s departure from the bloc, urging them to support the principle of “full access to the single market only in exchange for signing up to the four freedoms”.
Whenever Merkel says something like that, it indicates there is considerable possibility that exact same thing may very well happen.
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  #5617  
Old 05.10.2016, 21:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As if by magic:

IMF left shamefaced after peak pessimism over Brexit vote

Can anyone remember when the IMF were correct about anything?
Please be nice to the IMF; in three or four years time we (the UK) will be begging them for a loan
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  #5618  
Old 05.10.2016, 22:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Did you see the photos and footage of her this morning? She looks ill to me. I remember her during the referendum debates and she looked a lot healthier. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something the matter there.


Jeremy Chunt can go boil his head with his latest proposals. Does any employer in the Western World have the legal right to force it's trainees to stay with the company that trained them? Even the armed forces can't do that!

.
Yes, as long as it's a fixed term contract it's a reasonable clause if you break it early. We pay something like 200k gbp to train a doctor. It's reasonable to expect them to work some years in the U.K. (At a good salary) after this.

And junior doctors: spoilt money grabbing kids if there ever were any. We train them, we pay them hugely and they will go on to earn handsomely but its tools down if they have to work a Saturday and it's not double pay.
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  #5619  
Old 05.10.2016, 22:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Please be nice to the IMF; in three or four years time we (the UK) will be begging them for a loan
They will probably pay the UK for giving them the money, thats the funny bit of low interest rates, that may well go lower.
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  #5620  
Old 05.10.2016, 22:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, as long as it's a fixed term contract it's a reasonable clause if you break it early. We pay something like 200k gbp to train a doctor. It's reasonable to expect them to work some years in the U.K. (At a good salary) after this.

And junior doctors: spoilt money grabbing kids if there ever were any. We train them, we pay them hugely and they will go on to earn handsomely but its tools down if they have to work a Saturday and it's not double pay.
"it's a fixed term contract" Hunt wants to train more British doctors; so is this an attractive offer?

"its tools down" Well most people would react like this when told they will earn less for the same work?

It is not who you photograph but how you position them

Who was stupid enough to write Country on their conference banner?
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