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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6441  
Old 05.11.2016, 01:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"There was no mention of the High Court or parliamentary debates." Matter of interest how did you think Brexit would be implemented?
Did you ever try to cancel a fixed term mortgage or a car leasing agreement?
Now we are cancelling a long term multi billion contract; it is not like simply jumping off a train at a station before the end of the line
Don't you think the electorate had a right to know the ramifications of the result of the vote? As it was sold, the government would abide by the result. Your analogy is simplistic to say the least, the terms and conditions of a mortgage or leasing are quite clear; this is evidently not the case here.
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  #6442  
Old 05.11.2016, 02:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As it was sold, the government would abide by the result.
It never ceases to amaze me that, with all the publicity beforehand, that anyone could honestly believe the referendum was legally binding. Plenty of EF members knew that it wasn't...


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As I understand it the referendum result wouldn't be legally binding. There was a proposal that it should be but I don't think this has been included in the revised agreement.
20 Feb 2016
The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH


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The devil is in the fact that the referendum is non-binding! Yes, the UK citizenry will boldly vote and the government is pretty much free to ignore the results if they are inconvenient.
20 June 2016

How low will GBP go?


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No referendum result is legally binding, despite what brexiters say about getting back control, Parliament is and will be the only Sovereign lawmaking body in the UK.
22 June 2016

The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH


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This referendum was non-binding, and the Leave camp hasn't exactly won a resounding mandate, given the slim margin of victory.
24 June 2016

The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH
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  #6443  
Old 05.11.2016, 19:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

For DB, like that, do you think?:

https://www.facebook.com/officialrus...4686179939700/
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  #6444  
Old 06.11.2016, 01:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The Secret Barrister: Lord Chancellor is unfit for office and should resign
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  #6445  
Old 06.11.2016, 04:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Bloody brilliant article. This should be taught in every school in the land and be on the front pages of every newspaper by Monday. It won't, but I wish it was.

Also, 'pusillanimously' is a lovely word to add to my volcabulary.
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  #6446  
Old 06.11.2016, 14:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So 'Power to the people' - Rees Mogg wants May to appoint 1000 new Tory Peers to force Brexit through Since when have Tory Peers and the House of Lords represented 'the People' The thought of Rees-Mogg being the 'people's champion' is so ridiculously 'funny' (ahah) ...

Farage has just agreed that we need Constiutional change to make Referendi binding- and that the UK is NOT, currently, a direct democracy, but a Parliamentary one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ruling-9206164

Last edited by Odile; 06.11.2016 at 14:17.
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  #6447  
Old 06.11.2016, 14:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It never has been a direct democracy so nothing new there. Switzerland's probably the only country - at least Western country - that comes close. Not up on how the Eastern countries political systems work - if they work at all.
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  #6448  
Old 06.11.2016, 17:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Its the end of the World!!
Anger as Walkers increases price of crisps by 10% following post-Brexit slump in the pound
Walkers is increasing the price of a bag of crisps by up to 10 per cent - with the slump in the pound following the Brexit vote to blame, the firm has said.

Source

I do not see how they can justify such an increase; they say while the crisps are made from British potatoes, other items - including frying oil, seasoning, and packaging materials - were all imported.
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  #6449  
Old 06.11.2016, 17:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What doesn't cease to amaze me is that in spite of all the clearly broken promises of the Leave camp, and all the clear economic signs that Brexit will mark hard economic times for the UK, there remains a large number of die-hard Leave voters who are in denial about this.

My take is this---that this ruling will give Parliament a way to get out of the Brexit vote and stay in the EU. If it doesn't, and May manages to invoke Article 50, her Tory government is going to face a hard choice. Will they be willing to strike a new trade deal with the EU at the cost of allowing free movement of people (the true raison d'être for the Brexit vote) or will they decide that keeping out Syrian refugees is more important and cut themselves off completely from Europe?
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  #6450  
Old 06.11.2016, 17:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I do not see how they can justify such an increase; they say while the crisps are made from British potatoes, other items - including frying oil, seasoning, and packaging materials - were all imported.
That's standard in the food industry I'm afraid. Walkers are owned by Pepsi and Frito-Lay, both American companies, so they may well have decided where the packaging, etc, is sourced from.

I worked for a company that had 'British' in the title, even though it was an Anglo-French concern and later bought out by an American company without any change to the UK company name. Plus, Walkers probaly make crisps for many of the supermarket own brands and are contractually tied to them r.e. wholesale pricing, for a fixed time scale, so they only way they can absorb the extra cost is with their name brand until those contracts are renegotiated.
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  #6451  
Old 06.11.2016, 17:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What doesn't cease to amaze me is that in spite of all the clearly broken promises of the Leave camp, and all the clear economic signs that Brexit will mark hard economic times for the UK, there remains a large number of die-hard Leave voters who are in denial about this.
And with Corbyn flip-flopping all over the show, MPs are going to struggle to know what is the best thing to do. Thank god I'm LibDem. No lack of clarity with them.
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  #6452  
Old 06.11.2016, 19:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's standard in the food industry I'm afraid. Walkers are owned by Pepsi and Frito-Lay, both American companies, so they may well have decided where the packaging, etc, is sourced from.

I worked for a company that had 'British' in the title, even though it was an Anglo-French concern and later bought out by an American company without any change to the UK company name. Plus, Walkers probaly make crisps for many of the supermarket own brands and are contractually tied to them r.e. wholesale pricing, for a fixed time scale, so they only way they can absorb the extra cost is with their name brand until those contracts are renegotiated.
And Birds Eye just announced a 12% increase in fish fingers pricing on the basis that their suppliers are using US dollar prices!!
The current forecast for 2017 inflation is only 3.5%; this forecast might need some adjustment
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  #6453  
Old 06.11.2016, 19:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And with Corbyn flip-flopping all over the show, MPs are going to struggle to know what is the best thing to do. Thank god I'm LibDem. No lack of clarity with them.
Except on tuition fees.
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  #6454  
Old 06.11.2016, 19:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What doesn't cease to amaze me is that in spite of all the clearly broken promises of the Leave camp, and all the clear economic signs that Brexit will mark hard economic times for the UK, there remains a large number of die-hard Leave voters who are in denial about this.
That's because - regardless of whether Parliament votes for Brexit or not - the EU remains a fundamentally illiberal, anti-democratic, racist and anti-working-person organisation. It beggars belief that anyone outside the political elite would actively choose to remain a part of it.
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  #6455  
Old 06.11.2016, 19:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...As it was sold, the government would abide by the result. ...
Governments lie. And the government that made that promise (Cameron's) doesn't exist any more.
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  #6456  
Old 07.11.2016, 12:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's because - regardless of whether Parliament votes for Brexit or not - the EU remains a fundamentally illiberal, anti-democratic, racist and anti-working-person organisation. It beggars belief that anyone outside the political elite would actively choose to remain a part of it.
Hotel California - The Eagles, seems appropriate

You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! "
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  #6457  
Old 07.11.2016, 12:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's because - regardless of whether Parliament votes for Brexit or not - the EU remains a fundamentally illiberal, anti-democratic, racist and anti-working-person organisation. It beggars belief that anyone outside the political elite would actively choose to remain a part of it.
So completely unlike the UK with its very illiberal government working very much in the interests of the rich elite, an upper house with leglislative powers that is wholly undemocratic, where racism/xenophobia was the main reason for 48% of the population voting for Brexit and whose nationals are subjects instead of citizens?

At least those of the the EU governing bodies that are appointed are put there by democratically elected governments and not just because they happened to be born on the right side of the blanket.
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  #6458  
Old 07.11.2016, 13:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I've read this but agree fully with the point of view expressed in the tabloid newspapers which is fundamentally about flaws in the English legal system which has led to judges making inappropriate judgements on issues of importance by failing to consider the political impact of their decisions.

This stems from an archaic system which has artificially split the function of government across the areas of executive, legislature and judiciary and reducing the role of the monarch to a mere figurehead. This results in all sorts of inefficiencies which hamper the daily business of government, adding all sorts of impediments to solving problems and the general improvement of the lot of the people. The prime minister cannot even embark on the right course of action without having to consider a lot of tiresome procedures and processes which bring all sorts of unpredictable barriers and delays along the way, inhibiting progress.
Trial by jury is, incidentally, another of those legal relics of the past which adds an unpredictable element to a trial with the potential to result in the wrong judgement.

England is a parliamentary democracy which means that whereas the "will of the people" is not paramount, it is extremely important. That is, extremely important at election time. That is why election time has a sort of magical character where there is talk of the benefits which are to be bestowed on people of all walks of life: higher pensions, increased coal allowances, lower pension age, shorter working week for the same pay, more money for the health service, less foreigners and other undesirables, more markets for our goods and services, less competition from abroad etc. etc.
After that is all over, the "will of the people" still has an important function, namely as a pretext for any chosen course of action by those who have succeeded in their primary goal of navigating through the election process and obtaining a position of power at the end. That is, of course, as long as those courses of action are not sabotaged by an interfering judiciary or clumsy legislature.

Removing the House of Lords as the final arbiter and last stage of the legal appeals process, and replacing it with the Supreme Court was an important first step in addressing these inefficiencies and delays in the due process of government. The next important step would be to run the Supreme Court out of Downing Street and expand its role to monitoring the performance of courts and judges, ensuring that budgets are upheld (including the remuneration of judges). This new role would naturally also extend to running a help desk for judges seeking clarification of the likely political impact of any judgements they are about to make and to provide interpretations of ambiguous legal formulations where the legislation may not have accurately reflected the will of parliament. Included in the function of the Supreme Court Help Desk would be to provide information packs to selected friendly media and press outlets, guiding them in the understanding of unfolding cases, so these can correctly present how the "will of the people" is being served.

I fully understand the frustration that Theresa May is suffering in her implementation of her BREXIT plans. She would (in more enlightened times) have been able to follow the example of Henry the VIII of England in his Exit from the Catholic Church with, in the the face of all that tiresome and systematic resistance, the simple expedient of an axe and a chopping block.
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  #6459  
Old 07.11.2016, 13:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Simple solution in this case, assuming the appeal isn't successful:

Have the MPs vote for Brexit according to what their constituents voted for (this information is available).
Implement constitutional change asap to make all future referendums binding.

Problem solved.
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  #6460  
Old 07.11.2016, 14:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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....The next important step would be to run the Supreme Court out of Downing Street and expand its role to monitoring the performance of courts and judges, ensuring that budgets are upheld (including the remuneration of judges). This new role would naturally also extend to running a help desk for judges seeking clarification of the likely political impact of any judgements they are about to make and to provide interpretations of ambiguous legal formulations where the legislation may not have accurately reflected the will of parliament. Included in the function of the Supreme Court Help Desk would be to provide information packs to selected friendly media and press outlets, guiding them in the understanding of unfolding cases, so these can correctly present how the "will of the people" is being served

I fully understand the frustration that Theresa May is suffering in her implementation of her BREXIT plans. She would (in more enlightened times) have been able to follow the example of Henry the VIII of England in his Exit from the Catholic Church with, in the the face of all that tiresome and systematic resistance, the simple expedient of an axe and a chopping block. .....
I sincerely hope forgetting to include the winking smilie was an oversight...there's those on here that might think you mean it....


Last edited by baboon; 07.11.2016 at 15:05.
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