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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6541  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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One for May too.

"US President-elect Donald Trump has invited Theresa May to visit Washington in a phone call in which both stressed the importance of UK/US relations."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37941737
According to the US Newspapers Trump phoned May while he was in his car on the way to visit Obama, respect not!
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  #6542  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder if this will happen:

https://www.google.ch/search?q=nigel...ean+ambassador

it would make the negotiations very interesting
Downing Street has denied reports that the interim Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, could act as a go-between to the US president-elect, Donald Trump.

The Daily Telegraph reported that the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, intended to speak to Farage before holding talks with senior Trump advisers.

The suggestion was rejected by both Conservative and Ukip sources. A No 10 spokesman said: “Dr Fox has no plans to talk to Mr Farage.”

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Remember when the Telegraph was a respected newspaper?
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  #6543  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Downing Street has denied reports that the interim Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, could act as a go-between to the US president-elect, Donald Trump.

The Daily Telegraph reported that the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, intended to speak to Farage before holding talks with senior Trump advisers.

The suggestion was rejected by both Conservative and Ukip sources. A No 10 spokesman said: “Dr Fox has no plans to talk to Mr Farage.”

Source

Remember when the Telegraph was a respected newspaper?
I baffles me than anybody could even think Farage would be a good deal broker or intermediary. I wonder where that idea came from.
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  #6544  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I baffles me than anybody could even think Farage would be a good deal broker or intermediary. I wonder where that idea came from.
Nigel Farage?
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  #6545  
Old 11.11.2016, 20:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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.................

May's approach to the Indians of "we are open for more trade but cracking down on immigration" has not exactly proven to be a winner
Nor is it surprising that May flies back to London [from India visit] disappointed and chastened. It was painfully visible on her trip that post-Brexit Britain still hasn’t learned that it no longer carries the economic heft to win deals on its own terms.

Source

Quote "As one of India’s top civil servants said to May in Delhi: “There’s no such thing as selective free trade.” If Britain wants Indian markets, it will need to open itself up to Indian migrants and Indian service providers."

May and her Cabinet will have to up their game to generate new business outside the EU.
India imports most goods from China; how will UK compete?
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  #6546  
Old 11.11.2016, 20:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quote "As one of India’s top civil servants said to May in Delhi: “There’s no such thing as selective free trade.” If Britain wants Indian markets, it will need to open itself up to Indian migrants and Indian service providers."
India's quite the hypocrite on that score, unless things have radically changed in the last year. They had a phase, only a couple of years ago, of putting an automatic 3 month 'referral' on all Business visa applications from China and Hong Kong. I had a British client who was 'refered' because his dad was born in Hong Kong.
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  #6547  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

‘I feel truly ashamed.’ University of Sheffield vice-chancellor Sir Keith Burnett on Theresa May’s trade mission to India
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  #6548  
Old 12.11.2016, 01:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

From the article posted by Reb...

Quote:
Other countries are rubbing their hands with glee at our stupidity. Ms May is announcing that her trade mission to Europe has seen £1 billion in deals announced for the UK. But remember that international students are worth £14 billion to the UK economy every year. That’s equivalent to more than one major trade mission a month.
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  #6549  
Old 12.11.2016, 07:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the article posted by Reb...
Wow. What's the 14 billion from? Is that in fees they pay or something? It's an incredible figure!
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  #6550  
Old 12.11.2016, 11:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the article posted by Reb...
"Ms May is announcing that her trade mission to Europe has seen £1 billion in deals "

Of course that is very good.

If you go onto the gov.uk site you will see this £1 billion is an estimate over 5 years not a committed sum.

For example, Gurr Jones will provide services such as the valuation and appraisal of fine and decorative art, antiques and collectables to art enthusiasts and collectors across India. The deal is expected to generate a turnover of £50 million in the next 3 to 5 years.

Four of the deals are about building new manufacturing plants in India which will not do a lot for British jobs?

How many of these deals are brand new and not simply confirmation of existing plans is not clear.
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  #6551  
Old 12.11.2016, 14:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Wow. What's the 14 billion from? Is that in fees they pay or something? It's an incredible figure!
Yes, it's the fees they pay, but there's also the beneficial impact they have on the local economy whilst they're in the UK. These students are often state sponsored by their own governments, or come from wealthy families.

Just a couple of examples, Edinburgh Uni has a huge foreign student population with their own guarded and gated halls of residence. I've been to a party there and security is way tighter than at any other Uni I've been to.

Manchester Uni's engineering department as almost all foreign students, largely because they were the only ones applying in the 2000's.

My home town college used to be a World centre for mining technology, but I don't believe it still is... We had students from all over the World studying mining, and all the young African guys in town were the sons of very wealthy mining families in Africa. They bought a couple of large houses at the bottom of my street for themselves while they were here, until the BNP petrol bombed the houses and drove them out.
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  #6552  
Old 12.11.2016, 23:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

More than 80 MPs are plotting to stage a Parliamentary vote calling for a second Brexit referendum.

In a move that prompted anger from Conservative ministers a coalition of MPs led by Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, said that they now intend to force a vote calling for another referendum of the terms of Britain’s exit from the EU.

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Hope this is more accurate than the rubbish they published about Farage
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  #6553  
Old 12.11.2016, 23:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Congress will flush TPP down the toilet, White House concedes.
Obama administration admits defeat after congressional leaders from both parties say they will not bring trade deal forward during lame-duck session.

Source

Seems nobody wants to fight for something that Trump will anyway block.
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  #6554  
Old 13.11.2016, 00:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Originally published in January 2000
It's on Farron's twitter, and Owen Smith has alluded to it on his. This is the article Farron has written...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_tw
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  #6555  
Old 13.11.2016, 00:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's on Farron's twitter, and Owen Smith has alluded to it on his. This is the article Farron has written...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_tw
This second referendum "plot" is all over the Web now and in most of the newspapers.
On one side it seems to be a good idea but on the other I wonder if I can face all the emotion and stress it will generate!

One major driver seems to be the rumour that the UK Govt will argue in their Court appeal that invoking Art. 50. is not irrevocable; which in turn implies that May is not averse to cancelling Brexit.
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  #6556  
Old 13.11.2016, 02:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Oh FFS!

Rent-a-knob's arrived.

Quote:
Nigel Farage has become the first British politician to meet President-elect Donald Trump since his victory.
The one-on-one meeting - which is likely to irk Downing Street - took place at Trump Tower in New York.
http://news.sky.com/story/nigel-fara...ments-10654947
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  #6557  
Old 13.11.2016, 10:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This second referendum "plot" is all over the Web now and in most of the newspapers.
On one side it seems to be a good idea but on the other I wonder if I can face all the emotion and stress it will generate!

One major driver seems to be the rumour that the UK Govt will argue in their Court appeal that invoking Art. 50. is not irrevocable; which in turn implies that May is not averse to cancelling Brexit.
So their thinking is if we don't get a deal we like we won't go? EU will never put up with that and neither will the British people. Yeah, have a vote on the deal which is effectively what happened this time, but if the answer is no we don't like it we leave with nothing. Trigger Article 50 and we are going out!

May and team must have been reading this:

"Some have proposed the use of the Article 50 procedure to force a renegotiation of a Member State's membership of the EU. In this context, the question could be posed as to whether – once a Member State has notified the European Council of its intention to withdraw from the EU, and a withdrawal agreement has been negotiated – it can, depending on the results of the negotiations, unilaterally revoke its notification and suspend the withdrawal procedure. Most commentators argue that this is impossible or at least doubtful, from a legal point of view. Indeed Article 50 TEU does not expressly provide for the revocation of a notice of withdrawal and establishes that, once opened, the withdrawal process ends either within two years or later, if this deadline is extended by agreement.

Furthermore, it should be noted that the event triggering the withdrawal is the unilateral notification as such and not the agreement between the withdrawing state and the EU. The merely declaratory character of the withdrawal agreement for cancellation of membership derives from the fact that the withdrawal takes place even if an agreement is not concluded (Article 50(3) TEU). This does not mean, however, that the withdrawal process could not be suspended, if there was mutual agreement between the withdrawing state, the remaining Member States and the EU institutions, rather than a unilateral revocation."

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdf

My position is in bold though. Once triggered we'll be out regardless. Yay!
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  #6558  
Old 13.11.2016, 10:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Lord Kerr is the former UK diplomat who wrote Article 50, the legal process by which Britain will leave the EU, says Brexit could still be cancelled - even after exit negotiations begin.

John Kerr, who now sits as a cross-bench peer in the House of Lords, said the EU could not legally force Britain to leave even if it has already invoked Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

He wrote the agreement so he is a very credible person?

Source

Edit; & if the UK Govt will argue in their Court appeal that invoking Art. 50. is not irrevocable then it is revocable!
Maybe then the appeal would have to be referred to the ECJ for a ruling on Art. 50 which is an EU regulation?

Last edited by marton; 13.11.2016 at 12:43.
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  #6559  
Old 13.11.2016, 12:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
So their thinking is if we don't get a deal we like we won't go? EU will never put up with that and neither will the British people. Yeah, have a vote on the deal which is effectively what happened this time, but if the answer is no we don't like it we leave with nothing. Trigger Article 50 and we are going out!
No it isn't.

If someone says to you... "Do you want to go on holiday? Two weeks. All expenses paid?"...and you say... "Yes please!"... then that offer turns out to be the first two weeks of December in a caravan in Blackpool with train tickets and a freezer full of ready meals included...I'd rather stay at home.

The British people are a fickle bunch when it comes to getting their own way. The people from my home town are known as Pie Eaters, not because they eat a lot of pies, but because they ate humble pie during the 1920's miners' strike.

What I'm seeing with the people who voted Leave without realising the full consequences and time scale of the process, is a feeling of...
"We should have been out by now!"
"Nobody told us Cameron would step down!"
"Why are prices going up in the shops?"
"Why did my holiday cost so much this time?"
...and most importantly...

"You all bloody lied to us!"

That last point is exactly why we're in this mess in the first place and why Trump is President Elect. Politicians keep reading the mood of the people wrong, and there will be a backlash.

Every Saturday night, British people vote at the press of a button, yet when it comes to the serious stuff, many still (despite the huge turnout) don't make the effort. And make no mistake, for every single person who is angry that we're not already out of Europe, there will be 10 who are livid tonight if Honey G is still in The X Factor. I wish that was a joke, but it isn't.
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  #6560  
Old 13.11.2016, 13:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

About revoking Art. 50 - it could be that Article 68, Vienna Convention applies, this requires exit instruments from treaties to be revocable.

This whole business could be a huge feeding trough for the legal profession
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