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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6601  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

and as the high court have confirmed, that not her decision to make, the house needs to vote, deals need to be done etc etc

I'm not for one second saying the nhs will get anything, just playing devils advocate, nigel will use every trick in the book and the people will eat it up (again)
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  #6602  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Brexit and the election of President Trump are some of the best things that happened in 2016.

The UK must follow the Swiss path. The EU is doomed anyway
Like the UK over 40% of Swiss exports go to the EU so if the EU is doomed then so are we
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  #6603  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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and as the high court have confirmed, that not her decision to make, the house needs to vote, deals need to be done etc etc

I'm not for one second saying the nhs will get anything, just playing devils advocate, nigel will use every trick in the book and the people will eat it up (again)
The high court have not confirmed that May cannot set the budgets for UK departments.
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  #6604  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Brexit and the election of President Trump are some of the best things that happened in 2016.

The UK must follow the Swiss path. The EU is doomed anyway
Ah you mean full membership of the single market with free movement of people.
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  #6605  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The high court have not confirmed that May cannot set the budgets for UK departments.
<sigh> the high court have confirmed she cannot single handedly pull the uk out of europe, it has to go to a vote in the house of commons, in order to make sure 100% she wins that vote she will need to do some deals with her MP's , if they choose to, they can make her life very difficult indeed
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  #6606  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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<sigh> the high court have confirmed she cannot single handedly pull the uk out of europe, it has to go to a vote in the house of commons, in order to make sure 100% she wins that vote she will need to do some deals with her MP's , if they choose to, they can make her life very difficult indeed
There aren't too many deals she can make. To be able to promise them anything she would need to get assuracnces from the EU first, and as long as the EU says they won't negotiate ahead of article 50 being invoked, any deals she offers MPs are pretty much meaningless.

She's going to have to find a different way to approach this.
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  #6607  
Old 14.11.2016, 16:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There aren't too many deals she can make. To be able to promise them anything she would need to get assuracnces from the EU first, and as long as the EU says they won't negotiate ahead of article 50 being invoked, any deals she offers MPs are pretty much meaningless.

She's going to have to find a different way to approach this.

exactly, and all those MP's from the places that benefited most from EU funding are going to be demanding they still get there 'fair share' come exit time, right now she can't do anything, she certainly can't say dept X will get more or less money in even a months time, let alone 2 years time as the situation changes daily.
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  #6608  
Old 14.11.2016, 17:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Re my previous post re the 'power of the people' figures now switched over, from 51.89/48.11 to now 47.95/52.05 - of course there is a margin of error there. But this is not based on a 'poll' but a proper BE study ... even is you diss the figures - it certainly serves to illustrate just how VERY close the numbers were (and this even more in the USA elections where Clinton got more votes than Trump anyhow).

Those figures have also been very fair in their estimation of expats now over 15 years abroad who would be unable to vote (as in France, Spain, Italy- they are mainly retirees).

categories estimated were

now dead
voters now over 18
less regretters on both sides
switching regretters on both sides
expats who no longer can vote since then (as over 15 years abroad)

and figures as of 6th of November: 16, 729, 768 leave 18,161,215 remain.

As said, perhaps not 100% accurate- as no study can be- but certainly indicative of how silly the the concept of the 'will of the people' is in both Brexit and USA elections.
Are you related to Katty Kay?

"If I say something enough times then I will believe it". Or, in other words, denial.

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  #6609  
Old 14.11.2016, 17:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"It just makes people look like sore losers who are unable to accept and discuss others point of view." So you are against UK general elections every five years; once a political party is voted in it shows the will of the people and there should not another election?

You compared with the US, you know they have presidential elections every four years so people can change their minds
Not really the rules are clear before both a general election and referendum. In this case...

Is the below image open to any other interpretation? The house of commons voted on the question wording and accepted a change from the electoral commission. It was passed in the houses of parliament on the 7th September 2015.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ion-assessment



There is a 53 page document explaining the wording of the question and how this was investigated for bias, it's very conclusive.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ent-report.pdf

Last edited by Cata1yst; 14.11.2016 at 17:39. Reason: PDF link
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  #6610  
Old 14.11.2016, 19:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not really the rules are clear before both a general election and referendum. In this case...

Is the below image open to any other interpretation? The house of commons voted on the question wording and accepted a change from the electoral commission. It was passed in the houses of parliament on the 7th September 2015.
Pity is that the Government also decided to make in non binding, leaving so many options open that none of us truly know what the eventual outcome will be. This article from June 14th explains a lot, and will no doubt make the majority of us feel like we've all been stitched up.

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There is an incredible theory that a Brexit won't actually happen even if the public votes for it.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-...-brexit-2016-6
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  #6611  
Old 14.11.2016, 19:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you related to Katty Kay?

"If I say something enough times then I will believe it". Or, in other words, denial.
Some would also call that Positive Mental Attitude. Depends if you're a 'glass half empty' or a 'glass half full' kind of person. I'm on my second pint (metaphorically speaking)
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  #6612  
Old 14.11.2016, 20:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not really the rules are clear before both a general election and referendum. In this case...

Is the below image open to any other interpretation? The house of commons voted on the question wording and accepted a change from the electoral commission. It was passed in the houses of parliament on the 7th September 2015.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ion-assessment

There is a 53 page document explaining the wording of the question and how this was investigated for bias, it's very conclusive.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...ent-report.pdf
Trot along to the House of Commons library and take a look at their briefing on the House of Commons vote here. This is the briefing the MPs are supposed to read before they vote so they know exactly what they are voting for.

Take a look at Section 5, page 25!
Quote:
This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017.

It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to
implement the results of the referendum
, nor set a time limit by which a
vote to leave the EU should be implemented.

Instead, this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the electorate to voice an opinion
which then influences the Government in its policy decisions
You were fooled mate!
It is the electoral version of "Caveat Emptor".
In plain English, always read the small print!
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  #6613  
Old 15.11.2016, 02:05
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UK trade deficit widens

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The UK trade in goods deficit increased by £1.6bn over the month to £12.7bn. Imports rose £1.3bn to £38.8bn, while exports fell by £200m to £26.1bn. Imports of ships, materials, vehicles and oil were all up in September, the Office for National Statistics said.

The disappointing figures suggested the 16% fall in the value of the pound since the EU referendum in June failed to lift exports, despite making British goods cheaper abroad.
I must say I was not expecting that! It seems that despite the price drop the demand simply was not there. Is this an indicate of a down turn in the global economy???
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  #6614  
Old 15.11.2016, 02:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Holy f***!!
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  #6615  
Old 15.11.2016, 09:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

This guy gets it. The age of party politics and representative democracy is coming to an end. People are finally starting to realise that we don't need politicians.

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  #6616  
Old 15.11.2016, 10:45
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Re: UK trade deficit widens

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I must say I was not expecting that! It seems that despite the price drop the demand simply was not there. Is this an indicate of a down turn in the global economy???
I think it means that it takes time for Brexit effects to show, macro changes typically take 6-9 months (perhaps a bit less this time as the change is quite substantial). For instance the inflation increase we see now all over Europe is probably caused by the rising oil price since the turn of the year.
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  #6617  
Old 15.11.2016, 10:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Pity is that the Government also decided to make in non binding, leaving so many options open that none of us truly know what the eventual outcome will be. This article from June 14th explains a lot, and will no doubt make the majority of us feel like we've all been stitched up.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-...-brexit-2016-6
You just gotta love this point:
"Pro-EU MPs could even argue, ironically, that ignoring the public's will would be parliamentary sovereignty in practice — something that Leave campaigners argue has been conceded to Brussels."

Oh the irony
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Old 15.11.2016, 11:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Does it mean that well thought out and masterminded plan called "no plan is the best plan" applies here too?

'There is no plan' for Brexit, leaked memo says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
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  #6619  
Old 15.11.2016, 11:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This guy gets it. The age of party politics and representative democracy is coming to an end. People are finally starting to realise that we don't need politicians.
That man was one of the saner members of one of the most rabble rousing Question Time audiences I've ever seen.

We do need politicians.
Whose going to turn the street lights on at night?
Whose going to allocate funds for education, health care, the military, etc...
Whose going to deal with World leaders when they begin sabre rattling?

The list is endless, and I doubt you have the time, wit, knowledge or guile to do all of those tasks and make it home for dinner.

As for his last point... Empress disMay is a case in point. Her constituents in Maidenhead heavily voted to Remain in the EU, and also heavily voted against the Heathrow expansion. May has gone against them on both counts.

If that's the example that the PM sets, then anything is possible.
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  #6620  
Old 15.11.2016, 11:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Does it mean that well thought out and masterminded plan called "no plan is the best plan" applies here too?

'There is no plan' for Brexit, leaked memo says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
I think they just need to figure out how they are going to cover the costs. Recent history shows that any major (or minor, for that matter) national administrative venture runs wildly over budget, zooms past its deadline and ends up getting shelved or scrapped.

Maybe the 30,000 new staff is a conservative estimate (easier to round down again rather than round up after the fact) but if that is the figure they are working on, the budget must be astronomical.

I can see it being farmed out to private companies who will do their best to draw it out and squeeze out more funds.

Never mind - 350 million a week for the NHS, right..?
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