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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6641  
Old 15.11.2016, 18:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quite relevant, actually. If you look at Deutsche Bank, Merkel is unable to bail it out because of Germany's EU membership. Same with Monte Dei Pasche. EU State Aid laws prevents governments from protecting their largest economic engines. Outside the EU, the UK government can service its industries. So it would untie the country's hands in dealing with its problems. This is an EU law that prevents such assistance.
Seems that Deutsche Bank loaned Trump owned companies at least a third of a billion.
Consequently DB is delaying talks with the U.S. Justice Department officials working on a mortgage securities investigation of Deutsche Bank AG in the hope that when Trump is President he will intervene to reduce the proposed 14 Billion fine.

Of course Trump is an honourable man who would never do this.

Edit: According to this source Trump companies also borrowed money from Goldman Sachs and Bank of China.

How Trump will distance himself from all this is not yet published so he can avoid any allegations of undue influence.

Of course Trump is the candidate who was not in the pocket of large corporations!

Last edited by marton; 15.11.2016 at 19:00.
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  #6642  
Old 15.11.2016, 18:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ok, I get that you prefer direct democracy. It has many advantages, but how to introduce it the UK with a populace whose nearest experience to that is voting in reality tv shows? One referendum and they haven't shut up since. One! Can you begin to imagine the backlash if it were 8-10 compulsory referendums per year? No doubt some would relish the opportunity, but do you really think the majority would? We're a politically lazy nation.
It does not have to be 8 or 10 times a year. Ireland is also a Parliament of Westminster style democracy which includes a constitution with binding referenda. But there have only been about 35 referenda since the new constitution was approved by the people in 1937.
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  #6643  
Old 15.11.2016, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think the world might be a better place if more countries strived to be a little more like Switzerland.

Our expansionist attitudes in the recent and more distant past have brought out the worst in us rather than the best.
There's no denying that. There's a maturity about Switzerland which is enviable. I can well understand why some people may find it constrictive, but at my age, it makes sense.

Literally just had this conversation on the phone with my best mate. She's a very professional person who holds herself to high standards (we're chalk and cheese ) and gets very tightly wound when 'things' don't work as she feels they should. I feel she'd be able to breathe and unwind in Switzerland.
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  #6644  
Old 15.11.2016, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The only role for politicians should be to merely administrate and execute the will of the people. It works here, why shouldn't it work elsewhere?
Because it is not even that way here. Switzerland applies the basic division of powers just like most other democracies. Really surprised
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  #6645  
Old 15.11.2016, 19:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There's no denying that. There's a maturity about Switzerland which is enviable. I can well understand why some people may find it constrictive, but at my age, it makes sense.

Literally just had this conversation on the phone with my best mate. She's a very professional person who holds herself to high standards (we're chalk and cheese ) and gets very tightly wound when 'things' don't work as she feels they should. I feel she'd be able to breathe and unwind in Switzerland.
So long as large sums of money are not involved; then it gets complex here.
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  #6646  
Old 15.11.2016, 20:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Does it mean that well thought out and masterminded plan called "no plan is the best plan" applies here too?

'There is no plan' for Brexit, leaked memo says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
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Chris Grayling, the transport secretary who sits on the government’s Brexit cabinet committee, said “I have a team of people in my department who are working with David Davis on issues like aviation"
I wondered what he meant by "aviation" now I found this example "European discount giant easyJet plans to set up an operating company in the European Union to ensure it keeps intra-EU flight rights once Britain exits."

Another example "The European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation, commonly known as Eurocontrol, is an international organisation working to achieve safe and seamless air traffic management across Europe.

Although Eurocontrol is not an agency of the European Union, the EU has delegated parts of its Single European Sky regulations to Eurocontrol, making it the central organization for coordination and planning of air traffic control for all of Europe."

So the organisation is run under EU rules and presumably any dispute about EU compliance will be referred to the ECJ.
So this is not a big deal but is likely be another of the many contracts that need to be changed with consequent work to be done.
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  #6647  
Old 15.11.2016, 22:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Google announce huge new campus in the UK https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-new-london-hq

Some good news amidst all the doom mongering.
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  #6648  
Old 16.11.2016, 08:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What's that about no giving in on FMOP: ;-)

http://trib.al/JMnsvdU
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  #6649  
Old 16.11.2016, 09:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Google announce huge new campus in the UK https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-new-london-hq

Some good news amidst all the doom mongering.
It's not doom mongering to talk about the bad news as well. You can bury your head in the sand, but the balance of probabilities is that the UK will go through some tough economic times. Hopefully not of course.
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  #6650  
Old 16.11.2016, 09:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What's that about no giving in on FMOP: ;-)

http://trib.al/JMnsvdU
Read it carefully....perhaps better here :
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ee-movement-eu
as I think that summarises what she is talking about rather better which is access to benefits out of FMOP rather than FMOP itself.

In particular she says:
“In my firm view, we cannot wobble on the basic principle of free movement of people.”
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  #6651  
Old 16.11.2016, 09:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And why would it be better in the Guardian? Does that suit your view perhaps

It's just a difference of opinion. I have just read the Telegraph article and it's clear FMOP has to be re-looked at.

I can't read the Guardian, i get a 404 on your link.
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  #6652  
Old 16.11.2016, 09:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

My prediction: in the end the UK will be offered access to the common market without FMOP.
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  #6653  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And why would it be better in the Guardian? Does that suit your view perhaps

It's just a difference of opinion. I have just read the Telegraph article and it's clear FMOP has to be re-looked at.

I can't read the Guardian, i get a 404 on your link.
IE not letting me edit the post...try again with the link
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ee-movement-eu


Actually not a difference of opinion. The Guardian simply contains more (translated) quotes which make it clear what she is talking about. Particularly the bit I quoted before which makes it very clear that she is firm on the basic principal of FMOP.
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  #6654  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

also looks like the supreme court decision could be irrelevant:

https://www.ft.com/content/a6a91558-...3-bb8207902122

looks like things are progressing despite all the negative noise
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  #6655  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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My prediction: in the end the UK will be offered access to the common market without FMOP.
Full access to the common market will kill lots of jobs somewhere else; why would anyone accept this thing without any compensation?
In the name of what?
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  #6656  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

In the Guardian article she's opening the door to discussion.

People always say read the fine print and that's what's up for discussion.

She's up for election next year. She sees how the people of the world are thinking.
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  #6657  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Full access to the common market will kill lots of jobs somewhere else; why would anyone accept this thing without any compensation?
In the name of what?
For the simple reason that Germany is the only real exporter within the EU. Germany have complete control over the EU. They will want the UK to remain in the single market.
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  #6658  
Old 16.11.2016, 10:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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For the simple reason that Germany is the only real exporter within the EU. Germany have complete control over the EU. They will want the UK to remain in the single market.
Germany might be the real exporter (don't know about that though - when I visit my home country it doesn't look like they're the only ones) but Germany is not alone. And I don't think they can afford to disregard the interests of other countries.

My guess re. access to the common market: with some limitations and restrictions, sure. All fair.
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  #6659  
Old 16.11.2016, 11:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And I don't think they can afford to disregard the interests of other countries.
They can, they do and they will. See the handling of the migrant crisis for details.
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  #6660  
Old 16.11.2016, 11:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They can, they do and they will. See the handling of the migrant crisis for details.
I don't think Germany feels it is disregarding anybody's interests.

Rather, their problem is that they think they know better and that other countries are too dumb to see what is good for them.
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