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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6701  
Old 17.11.2016, 10:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you think there is no advantage for the EU to have advance details of Britain's approach to the negotiations, then I can only politely say that there isn't much point in discussing this.
Didn't say anything about the approach to the negotiations, rather the objective. Until you have an objective you don't have anything to negotiate on. Imagine negotiations day 1...:

EU - OK, what do you want out of your exit
UK - We're not telling you

It will be a pretty short conversation.

Of course, judging from the incredibly coordinated approach we see from the PM and the 3 BREXIT ministers it is quite probable they don't themselves have a clue what they want out of it.
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  #6702  
Old 17.11.2016, 10:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/i...20161116117206
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  #6703  
Old 17.11.2016, 10:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So a significant number of Germans want Merkel to stand for the pleasure of watching her defeated; a very, very cunning plan!
I understand quite a few Tories backed Corbyn.

And I think not because they agree with him.
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  #6704  
Old 17.11.2016, 12:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You seem to think that MPs are making a genuine request for information to help them make a "reasonable judgement" on A50. MPs, especially opposition MPs, already know exactly what their positions are, and how they will respond to anything the government says, regardless of what is 'revealed'. This is not a bona fide attempt to ensure that Brexit proceeds. It's a delaying tactic, and part of a plan to weaken the UK's negotiating position -- not to strengthen it.

If you think there is no advantage for the EU to have advance details of Britain's approach to the negotiations, then I can only politely say that there isn't much point in discussing this.
Why?
The UK already has advance details of the EUs approach to the negotiations?
So why not also give the EU advance details?
Do you think the EU will change this approach if they know the UK approach?
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  #6705  
Old 17.11.2016, 14:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

All this talk of A50 got me wondering if they've dug the road up again.

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Another secret Nissan type deal for jaguar landrover! What is this costing us
More to the point, coming straight off the back of her disasterous trade trip to India, what has she cost us?

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EU - OK, what do you want out of your exit
UK - We're not telling you
BoJo - pulls out the list of famous bands most ridiculous rider requests, plus a herd of brilliant white unicorns for his post-Brexit fantasy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7235996.html
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  #6706  
Old 17.11.2016, 16:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

"Whose been a naughty boy then little Nige?!! You're going to get a spanking for this!
What? Your botty's still sore from your visit to Trumpton?
Oh dear...What a pity...Nevermind..."

Quote:
UKIP group 'misspent' EU funding on Brexit campaign, says leaked audit

The party spent hundreds of thousands in EU cash on polling ahead of the General Election and EU referendum, a leaked audit says....


... This comes at a bad time for the embattled party, whose finances are in a poor state, a situation not helped by major party donor Arron Banks threatening to stop funding UKIP.
http://news.sky.com/story/ukip-missp...audit-10660254
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  #6707  
Old 17.11.2016, 16:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"Whose been a naughty boy then little Nige?!! You're going to get a spanking for this!
What? Your botty's still sore from your visit to Trumpton?
Oh dear...What a pity...Nevermind..."


http://news.sky.com/story/ukip-missp...audit-10660254
LOL, we knew they were liars but now it is alleged they were also crooked.

Guess Nigel's chances of a Peerage are declining. Trump University is also facing a class action fraud trial in San Diego - maybe Trump can give Nigel some tips about how to handle such matters!
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  #6708  
Old 17.11.2016, 16:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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LOL, we knew they were liars but now it is alleged they were also crooked.

Guess Nigel's chances of a Peerage are declining. Trump University is also facing a class action fraud trial in San Diego - maybe Trump can give Nigel some tips about how to handle such matters!
I thought being crooked was a legal prerequisite for being a politician ? I'm sure there's some EU directive saying so...
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  #6709  
Old 17.11.2016, 17:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You seem to think that MPs are making a genuine request for information to help them make a "reasonable judgement" on A50. MPs, especially opposition MPs, already know exactly what their positions are, and how they will respond to anything the government says, regardless of what is 'revealed'. This is not a bona fide attempt to ensure that Brexit proceeds. It's a delaying tactic, and part of a plan to weaken the UK's negotiating position -- not to strengthen it.

If you think there is no advantage for the EU to have advance details of Britain's approach to the negotiations, then I can only politely say that there isn't much point in discussing this.
I think you're right to point out that pulishing one's strategy and aims removes many tools and bargaining avenues, not least the possibility of a bluff.

OTOH if UK parliament is indeed the entity that's, to phrase it bluntly, in charge of things as suggested by being sovereign (which I'm not sure is of much importance in this context, I think being *the Sovereign* is what counts here, the position claimed by the monarch) then of course there must be some kind of common understanding of aims to be reached regardless of whether they're published or not.

Thus as I see things, May's refusal isn't merely part of Brexit proceedings, it's also a consequence of the internal power struggle between government and parliament. The £64k question is of course what one should prioritize, a question that's equally valid to pose to both PMs and May. Blaming one side for how they (don't) act inherently validates the other side for how they (don't) act. Nothing keeps the two parties from coordinating behind closed doors, perhaps to a small circle only, though that requires a minimum level of cooperation.
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  #6710  
Old 17.11.2016, 18:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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LOL, we knew they were liars but now it is alleged they were also crooked.
And now he says he's "being victimised"

Little Nige turning into a snowflake for Christmas? Awww diddums! At least there'll be a part for him in the Trumpton Nativity, but I don't seem to remember any of the Three Wise Men bringing BS...

Quote:
Nigel Farage has denied using EU cash to try to win the South Thanet seat at the General Election saying he's been victimised.
http://news.sky.com/story/nigel-fara...-seat-10660743
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  #6711  
Old 17.11.2016, 18:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

One consequence of Brexit: as part of increased security measures in Europe as a result of the terror attacks all non euro citizens entering europe will have to have a security clearance form available online costing 5 euros to enter europe.

obviously this will include u.k. citizens after Brexit

there were 40 million u.k. visits to europe last year

reported on bbc news last night

on a side note will be interesting how that affects Swiss citizens or schengen
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  #6712  
Old 17.11.2016, 18:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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One consequence of Brexit: as part of increased security measures in Europe as a result of the terror attacks all non euro citizens entering europe will have to have a security clearance form available online costing 5 euros to enter europe.

obviously this will include u.k. citizens after Brexit

there were 40 million u.k. visits to europe last year

reported on bbc news last night

on a side note will be interesting how that affects Swiss citizens or schengen
It will be a charge to enter the Schengen zone so no negative effect on Swiss citizens or Schengen; UK anyway was not in Schengen so hard to claim this is a consequence of Brexit other than UK citizens will likely not be exempt?

Source
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  #6713  
Old 17.11.2016, 19:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It will be a charge to enter the Schengen zone so no negative effect on Swiss citizens or Schengen; UK anyway was not in Schengen so hard to claim this is a consequence of Brexit other than UK citizens will likely not be exempt?

Source
Not quite, if you read your link, Ireland which is outside Schengen, but an EU member will be exempt from the fee. The same i guess would have applied to the UK.
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  #6714  
Old 17.11.2016, 19:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I thought being crooked was a legal prerequisite for being a politician ? I'm sure there's some EU directive saying so...
While Juncker is poking about in UKIP's nasty little pockets, he needs to get back to investigating his own past and missing money/ tax payments, no?

Or has he buried that one?
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  #6715  
Old 17.11.2016, 20:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you're right to point out that pulishing one's strategy and aims removes many tools and bargaining avenues, not least the possibility of a bluff.

OTOH if UK parliament is indeed the entity that's, to phrase it bluntly, in charge of things as suggested by being sovereign (which I'm not sure is of much importance in this context, I think being *the Sovereign* is what counts here, the position claimed by the monarch) then of course there must be some kind of common understanding of aims to be reached regardless of whether they're published or not.

Thus as I see things, May's refusal isn't merely part of Brexit proceedings, it's also a consequence of the internal power struggle between government and parliament. The £64k question is of course what one should prioritize, a question that's equally valid to pose to both PMs and May. Blaming one side for how they (don't) act inherently validates the other side for how they (don't) act. Nothing keeps the two parties from coordinating behind closed doors, perhaps to a small circle only, though that requires a minimum level of cooperation.
An Insight into the EU strategy; they do not seem worried to publish it
Germany’s finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, has set out a tough line on Brexit talks
Even after Brexit, the UK would be bound by tax rules that would restrict it from granting incentives to keep investors in the country and would also face EU budget bills for more than a decade.

The finance minister also insisted that Britain must stick to international rules on investment incentives, as with Nissan Motor. EU competition regulators have already asked Britain to explain what sort of commitments were made.

Agreements reached by the G20 industrialised countries to limit tax avoidance — an initiative, led by Germany and the UK, would reduce Britain’s ability to grant tax breaks to companies, even after leaving the EU.

Restrictions of EU immigration would end financial services companies’ free access to EU markets under so-called passporting rules and Euro-clearing must stay in the EU.

Source (might be behind a paywall!)
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  #6716  
Old 17.11.2016, 20:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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While Juncker is poking about in UKIP's nasty little pockets, he needs to get back to investigating his own past and missing money/ tax payments, no?

Or has he buried that one?
You can relax
It is not Juncker poking about in UKIP's nasty little pockets; according to the link it is the European Parliament Bureau not the Commission.
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  #6717  
Old 17.11.2016, 20:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, let's not go there. Bannon has already offered his services to Le Pen, so the next one to go will be France. Please not Germany as well ...
Le Pen has her own problems.
Court decision today
Quote:
A French court has upheld a decision by far-right leader Marine Le Pen’s party to expel her father as a member, but said that he can remain the honorary president of the party he founded.

As a result, the court Thursday ordered the National Front to summon Jean-Marie Le Pen to any meetings he’s entitled to attend as honorary president.
LOL, the world is always stranger than fiction...
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  #6718  
Old 17.11.2016, 21:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not quite, if you read your link, Ireland which is outside Schengen, but an EU member will be exempt from the fee. The same i guess would have applied to the UK.
Except that at point the U.K. citizens will no longer be EU citizens, so I don't see your logic of comparing it to Irish citizens who are EU citizens. Furthermore Ireland only stayed out of schengen because of the U.K. so the may well be members by then.
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  #6719  
Old 17.11.2016, 21:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Except that at point the U.K. citizens will no longer be EU citizens, so I don't see your logic of comparing it to Irish citizens who are EU citizens. Furthermore Ireland only stayed out of schengen because of the U.K. so the may well be members by then.
May well be members of schengen - but not guaranteed - very good ;-)

No the article states that Ireland are outside Schengen and members of the EU and they are therefore exempt from the charge.

This would also apply to the UK if they stayed in Europe.

It doesn't say Ireland may be then members of Schengen and therefore exempt from the charge.

Slight difference eh?
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  #6720  
Old 17.11.2016, 23:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh great, now Britain will become a huge tax heaven next to Europe.
It's gonna be fun.
Those darn Hungarians, Hungary announced today they will cut corporate tax next year to 9% and companies will have the benefit of access to the single market.
This is 3.5% lower than Ireland.
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