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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #6961  
Old 04.12.2016, 16:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris seems happy to play May's whipping boy.. buffoonery at its best, tripping over himself, testing the waters with one statement but meaning something else entirely.. 'tis the trickery trade of a grinning fool - pure theatre.. but again at the expense of the electorate.
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  #6962  
Old 04.12.2016, 17:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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but that's not true. there are people here from all sorts of countries not in the eu. it's not all black and white and extremes. it will end up somewhere in the middle

this weekend is the next milestone with Austria. come Monday project europe could be breathing out again. italy as well
But Austria supports the EU?

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Don't interfere,' Austria's far-right presidential candidate tells Nigel Farage
Far-right candidate Nortbert Hofer has ruled out calling a referendum on Austria’s membership of the European Union, and called on Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, not to "interfere" in Austrian politics by calling for such a referendum.

“It is not something I want. We need to build a stronger union,” he said
Source
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  #6963  
Old 04.12.2016, 18:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But Austria supports the EU?



Source
A fascist supporting the notion of "Europe a Nation"?

Well, fancy that!
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  #6964  
Old 04.12.2016, 20:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A fascist supporting the notion of "Europe a Nation"?

Well, fancy that!
Makes him a rarity amongst present day fascists.

Anyway the Austrians rejected him.
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  #6965  
Old 04.12.2016, 21:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Makes him a rarity amongst present day fascists.

Anyway the Austrians rejected him.
This time round. Polls for the parliamentary elections show the FPO with a clear lead. And parliamentary elections are not for a ceromonial position.
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  #6966  
Old 05.12.2016, 00:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This time round. Polls for the parliamentary elections show the FPO with a clear lead. And parliamentary elections are not for a ceromonial position.
Trust me on one thing and one thing only Loz, no matter what you think you believe, the hard core FPO would be a step too far for you. They make the BNP look like a bunch of ballerinas.
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  #6967  
Old 05.12.2016, 08:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Trust me on one thing and one thing only Loz, no matter what you think you believe, the hard core FPO would be a step too far for you. They make the BNP look like a bunch of ballerinas.
Sadly I think you underestimate just how Breitbart Loz is.
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  #6968  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Trust me on one thing and one thing only Loz, no matter what you think you believe, the hard core FPO would be a step too far for you. They make the BNP look like a bunch of ballerinas.
Where have I said I support them? I just enjoy watching Europe crash and burn.
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  #6969  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Where have I said I support them? I just enjoy watching Europe crash and burn.
But how will we distance ourselves from the flames
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  #6970  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"Being a future rival is not a foregone conclusion." You are talking about the UK that plans to become a business tax haven and has already announced a 17% Corporation tax plus cutting business rates?
Don't you think that's all just gnashing of teeth, showing the EU what the UK could do if the worst comes to the worst.

I'm pretty sure that May & Co. would prefer an amicable solution with the EU. There also a good many people in the EU who want something similar.
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  #6971  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A fascist supporting the notion of "Europe a Nation"?

Well, fancy that!
Not so unique. The idea of European nationalism began to gain some support after World War II. Oswald Mosley actually coined the phrase "Europe a Nation" to describe a pan-European policy and it's cropped up a few times since.

Most neo-Fascists tend to be more tribal and ape German Fascist racial theories, which naturally sit uncomfortably with the idea of a European 'people', so tend to focus on the nation state or even narrower, more provincial, definitions of a 'people'.

Conversely the "Europe a Nation" school probably originates more from the Italian school of Fascism, which was more culturally focused.
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  #6972  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Trust me on one thing and one thing only Loz, no matter what you think you believe, the hard core FPO would be a step too far for you. They make the BNP look like a bunch of ballerinas.
What makes you say that?

the FPÖ have been in power before. It wasn't the end of the world.

I'm pretty sure I don't want to see the BNP in power.
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  #6973  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not so unique. The idea of European nationalism began to gain some support after World War II. Oswald Mosley actually coined the phrase "Europe a Nation" to describe a pan-European policy and it's cropped up a few times since.

Most neo-Fascists tend to be more tribal and ape German Fascist racial theories, which naturally sit uncomfortably with the idea of a European 'people', so tend to focus on the nation state or even narrower, more provincial, definitions of a 'people'.

Conversely the "Europe a Nation" school probably originates more from the Italian school of Fascism, which was more culturally focused.
It's not just the fascists who think this type of thing.

Isn't the whole "one flag and one national anthem thing" of the EU an attempt to make people believe the EU is a "single nation" entity.

Or are you implying the present EU is fascist?
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  #6974  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Labour 16 points down in the polls and Corbyn is making speeches to socialists in Prague. Lol.
He might do better to listen the socialists in Prague rather than lecture them.

They seem to be a good deal more switched on than he is.
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  #6975  
Old 05.12.2016, 11:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Whether we like it or not, and what should absolutely be screamed from the rooftops, is that this is all caused by the rise of the far right globally. Sustained dumbing down of the populace. Propaganda against Jews, immigrants, etc. The sheer irony and hypocrisy of the head of a global brand preaching against globalisation. Post truth politics. Rejection of the legal and political establishment.
No, the rise of the far right is the symptom, not the cause.
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  #6976  
Old 05.12.2016, 12:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Isn't the whole "one flag and one national anthem thing" of the EU an attempt to make people believe the EU is a "single nation" entity.
Nationalism is not the same thing as Fascism; that's grossly simplistic.

Nationalism came to the fore during the enlightenment around the time that the divine right of kings started breaking down and pretty much every nationality has been 'invented' as a result. What is it to be British, after all, but various ethnic groups who ended up under one government because Elizabeth I was childless? Spain, a nationality based little more on a marriage? Italy was as much a geographic term as anything else. All these nations have had a nationality invented for them long before Fascism was around.
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Or are you implying the present EU is fascist?
It probably would have succeeded in selling the idea of a European nation far better if it were. Reality is that such is the taboo in Europe regarding Fascism and nationalism (Germans were pretty mooted about supporting their national sportspeople until after reunification) that the EU has avoided using nationalism as a binding force.

George W Bush probably did more to foster European nationalism than the EU ever did when he went to war in Iraq and ignored overwhelming European opinion.
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  #6977  
Old 05.12.2016, 12:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No, the rise of the far right is the symptom, not the cause.
People seem to forget that while we've seen an increase in support in far-right parties in Europe over the last few years we've also seen increase in support in far-left parties too; like Movimento 5 Stelle, Syriza, Podemos and Sinn Fein (who oddly is both a nationalist and socialist party, but don't consider themselves, well, nationalist socialists).

It about the far, not the left or right.
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  #6978  
Old 05.12.2016, 12:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What makes you say that?

the FPÖ have been in power before. It wasn't the end of the world.

I'm pretty sure I don't want to see the BNP in power.
Hard core FPO, not the public face they put out.

I'm scared of three things in this World... sharks, snakes and crocodiles. That's it! Nothing else phases me. People don't scare me, (and I'm sure I've said this before on EF), but accidentally walking into a Nazi funeral procession in Berchtesgaden back in Jan 1988, is in the my top 5 most intimidating situations. I'd just got off the bus from Salzburg at the side of the main church, and was looking at the SS graves along the boundary wall (remember being gobsmacked that these boys were 19-22yrs old). I managed to get three photos before it became very clear it was time to get the hell out of Dodge. When I got back to the UK, I hassled a few college lecturer friends to find out what the armbands worn in the procession related to, particularly the three legged swastika. One of the groups in that procession were FPO.

Since then, I followed the rise of the FPO (as best as I could pre-internet), particularly through the Jörg Haider years because I was spending a fair amount of time in Austria in '94 and '95.

BNP are a bunch of Disney princesses compared to these people.
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  #6979  
Old 05.12.2016, 12:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Where have I said I support them? I just enjoy watching Europe crash and burn.
Europe or the EU?

You have children and you would wish that on them??? I don't get your logic and believe you're just trolling. Be careful what you wish for Loz.
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  #6980  
Old 05.12.2016, 12:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nationalism is not the same thing as Fascism; that's grossly simplistic.

Nationalism came to the fore during the enlightenment around the time that the divine right of kings started breaking down and pretty much every nationality has been 'invented' as a result. What is it to be British, after all, but various ethnic groups who ended up under one government because Elizabeth I was childless? Spain, a nationality based little more on a marriage? Italy was as much a geographic term as anything else. All these nations have had a nationality invented for them long before Fascism was around.
Nationalism can mean different things to different people and at different moments in time. Starting in Stuart times the UK fostered an "artificial" nationalism to tell the Scots and Irish (and Welsh) that they were all part of one family of nations. Later the same concept was projected onto the entire Commonwealth. The Spaniards did something similar with their concept of "Hispanidad" binding all Spanish-speaking nations of the world into a common concept. Tito tried it with Yugoslavia and succeeded at first but it fell apart later. China has been doing it for a long time and even countries like India are ultimately artificial constructs.

None of these countries can be accused of being overly fascist. I don't think you need to have imperial ambitions to be fascist or even to be overly nationalist to be a fascist. Mussolini in his younger years rejected the concept of ethinicity in nationalism and said everybody who agreed with him was welcome to join the fascist movement.
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