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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #681  
Old 15.05.2016, 08:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

we don't live in the sixties anymores. As a uk citizen, the brexit just looks like a bunch of racist dudes who want to deny basic human rights to anyone who isn't white, or a bunch of self interested rich people who don't want to pay taxes and a weaker government would be just peachy.

Wtf do they want? We're not colonial britain anymore, if someone pisses us off, we ain't got a navy, we're just britain barking along with the us. Wtf do you think will happen if the uk leaves the EU, a bunch of guys applauding us?
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  #682  
Old 15.05.2016, 08:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a uk citizen, the brexit just looks like a bunch of racist dudes who want to deny basic human rights to anyone who isn't white
They look a bit less racist than those who insist that Finns, Swedes and Germans get preferential treatment to our brothers and sisters in the Commonwealth when it comes to immigration.

See, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post above. "Remain" seems to be all about insulting the opposition. Where's the attempt to engage and persuade?
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  #683  
Old 15.05.2016, 08:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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ugh, lets face it, for most uk citizens, they're more in debt than ever before, thatchers britain was bought on borrowed time. the uks hpusing problem is a timebomb waiting to happen, leaving the EU ain't gonna do all about it but possibly deny those who profit off it a reasonable excuse.
Easy credit allowed people to live above their means, higher interest rates are needed sooner rather than later.

The housing 'crisis' is self inflicted due to rationing of land, easily solved by relaxing planning regulations.

Housing can never be unaffordable for very long, the sooner the props are removed the better.
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  #684  
Old 15.05.2016, 08:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"The European commission, the European parliament and the council often come together in secretive & closed negotiations and bring about laws which we all have to suck up. " Do you have an example?
I included newspaper links earlier in this thread regarding the democratic deficit in relation to the EU.

The secret way in which the EU elite go about their business leaves us all gasping for air

Trialogues happen after the Parliament and Council have agreed their respective positions on a pending piece of legislation. The series of negotiations, which the Commission sits in on, work towards agreeing a final compromise text. Both Parliament and Council must agree an identical text before it becomes law.
There are no minutes that come out afterwards. It’s never quite clear when the meetings are on or how the decision making is carried out,” O’Reilly told EurActiv. APRIL 21 2015
Emily O'Reilly
European Ombudsman


In 2005 the European Parliament got co-decision powers over immigration and asylum measures. However, each of the eight measures adopted in this field were agreed in secret trilogues meetings with the Council and the Commission at “first reading stage”. None of the documents or drafts from the trilogues are officially public. -- Tony Bunyan, September 2007 Statewatch View Point. See link below

Secret trilogues and the democratic deficit have been well documented going back a few years now, before the Brexit debate got underway.
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  #685  
Old 15.05.2016, 11:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris Johnson lets rip.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36295208

I think the key comment is here:

"But fundamentally what is lacking is the eternal problem, which is that there is no underlying loyalty to the idea of Europe."

Certainly there isn't in the UK. We've never seen ourselves as part of Europe.
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  #686  
Old 15.05.2016, 11:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I strongly advise my fellow Brits to watch the interview with Mark Carney on The Andrew Marr Show.

Yet to see anything at all that makes me even consider voting leave, especially with a fine example of Godwin's Law from Boris this morning. What a monumental plonker!

Last edited by Blueangel; 15.05.2016 at 12:38.
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  #687  
Old 15.05.2016, 13:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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See, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post above. "Remain" seems to be all about insulting the opposition. Where's the attempt to engage and persuade?
Facts and analysts are sadly lacking on both sides, I just read a comment from the NI First Minister claiming that an exit would have no impact on relations with the ROI, despite the fact that the border would be come the UK's only land border with the EU!

Even more concerning is that the border commission never finished it's work in the 1920s and to get a workable border that can actually be patrolled the UK would have to either renegotiate the border or pull back. And the would be one hell of a can of worms to open up.
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  #688  
Old 15.05.2016, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Your clearly too young to have any idea what it was like to live & work in the UK pre 1979.
Strike after strike
Base rate tax of 35%, it's 20% today.
You waited 6 months to get a fixed telephone at home
You could not leave the UK with more than £600 or use credit cards abroad.
High interest rates & inflation.

Standard of living in the UK is way higher than in 1979.
Well I am old enough to remember and I'm also old enough to remember that it was pretty much the same in most of Europe in those days. Except possibly strikes which seemed to dominate the British Isles and France.

Yes we've come along way since then, but I suspect people on a fixed income have suffered a setback in the last 10 years or so as their purchasing power has fallen.
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  #689  
Old 15.05.2016, 14:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well I am old enough to remember and I'm also old enough to remember that it was pretty much the same in most of Europe in those days. Except possibly strikes which seemed to dominate the British Isles and France.

Yes we've come along way since then, but I suspect people on a fixed income have suffered a setback in the last 10 years or so as their purchasing power has fallen.
Inflation has been very mild over the last 10 years, on a fixed income were much worth off between 1970 - 1980
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  #690  
Old 15.05.2016, 14:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I strongly advise my fellow Brits to watch the interview with Mark Carney on The Andrew Marr Show.

Yet to see anything at all that makes me even consider voting leave, especially with a fine example of Godwin's Law from Boris this morning. What a monumental plonker!
Watched it. Carney comes over as a nice guy, a bit like Obama, I thought.

But he didn't tell us anything - other than the Bank of England has to follow the government line, which is stay. Hardly persuasive, perticularly as he's been wrong before...
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  #691  
Old 15.05.2016, 14:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And honestly, the kids of uk nowadays are worse offf then what you ever were, apart from world wars, they have to spend more money on the most basic of needs than ever before, and so they go out less, but nevermind, the uk middle class will spend just as much from the hard work of sitting around and earning money from property.
I'm a child of the 60's and my mum only ever worked part-time from home, for the family buisness, until I was 18. She was very unusual amongst her friends, most of whom were full-time mothers and rarely worked outside of the home.
Now, I only know one family who have a single bread winner, but they can afford that by not having childcare, cars and the related costs. Nobody else can afford to only have one wage coming in because of mortgages and fuel bills.

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Easy credit allowed people to live above their means, higher interest rates are needed sooner rather than later.
The housing 'crisis' is self inflicted due to rationing of land, easily solved by relaxing planning regulations.
WTF?!!!

You've been out of the country for far too long if you honestly think that's the case!

1. It's a long time since many people could get credit at a reasonable rate from their bank, hence the rise of payday loan companies. I saw one tv advert on Friday that offered these loans at an interest rate of 1472% APR. You'll have to forgive me for not providing a link to the company in question, but that's owing to this decision by Google...

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Successive British governments refused to cap super-high interest rates, which is how we allowed Wonga to charge its poor borrowers up to 5,853%. Then this week Google shocks everyone by banning adverts for payday loans above 36% APR. It tells you a lot about who really runs the world today.
http://www.theguardian.com/money/blo...day-lender-ads

2. Have you seen the absolute garbage being thrown up by some unscrupulous builders? I know of two large housing estates in my home town that were built on land deemed unsuitable for building a new hospital back in the early 90's. One guy I worked with was dumb enough to buy one. It had two steps up from his garage into the kitchen. It now has five steps up into the kitchen and the house has had to be underpinned. He can't move because he can't sell the house as it's nigh on impossible to get a mortgage for it.

I warned him. I even dug out the 1901 Ordnance Survey maps of the building site which clearly showed it as marsh land / flood plain. If anyone is familiar with Surrey, it was the equivalent of building on the Lammas Land in Godalming.

3. When I bought my house, I put down a deposit just short of 10%, which was equivalent to approx 12% of our joint annual income.

My younger friends, in their mid to late 30's, are only just buying their own houses in the last couple of years because their minimum deposits required were 50-70% of their joint annual income. These are professional people, many of them teachers, who have to save for four years to even get the deposit together.
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  #692  
Old 15.05.2016, 15:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm a child of the 60's and my mum only ever worked part-time from home, for the family buisness, until I was 18. She was very unusual amongst her friends, most of whom were full-time mothers and rarely worked outside of the home.
Now, I only know one family who have a single bread winner, but they can afford that by not having childcare, cars and the related costs. Nobody else can afford to only have one wage coming in because of mortgages and fuel bills.


WTF?!!!

You've been out of the country for far too long if you honestly think that's the case!

1. It's a long time since many people could get credit at a reasonable rate from their bank, hence the rise of payday loan companies. I saw one tv advert on Friday that offered these loans at an interest rate of 1472% APR. You'll have to forgive me for not providing a link to the company in question, but that's owing to this decision by Google...

http://www.theguardian.com/money/blo...day-lender-ads

2. Have you seen the absolute garbage being thrown up by some unscrupulous builders? I know of two large housing estates in my home town that were built on land deemed unsuitable for building a new hospital back in the early 90's. One guy I worked with was dumb enough to buy one. It had two steps up from his garage into the kitchen. It now has five steps up into the kitchen and the house has had to be underpinned. He can't move because he can't sell the house as it's nigh on impossible to get a mortgage for it.

I warned him. I even dug out the 1901 Ordnance Survey maps of the building site which clearly showed it as marsh land / flood plain. If anyone is familiar with Surrey, it was the equivalent of building on the Lammas Land in Godalming.

3. When I bought my house, I put down a deposit just short of 10%, which was equivalent to approx 12% of our joint annual income.

My younger friends, in their mid to late 30's, are only just buying their own houses in the last couple of years because their minimum deposits required were 50-70% of their joint annual income. These are professional people, many of them teachers, who have to save for four years to even get the deposit together.
You got a mortgage of 10.8 times joint salary, quite unbelievable TBH.

I guess your friend did not have a full structural survey......

Easy credit such as car loans or leasing at very low rates
Easy credit such as free balance transfers on credit cards 0% for 2 years
Easy credit with mortgages offered at more than 3 times salary
Easy credit with mortgages with just 5% deposit.
The government giving interest free loans for 5 years of 20% of the purchase price, 40% in London.

All is available today..........
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  #693  
Old 15.05.2016, 16:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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See, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post above. "Remain" seems to be all about insulting the opposition. Where's the attempt to engage and persuade?
The choice of language indeed is very different between the "outs" and the "ins" even in this thread.
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  #694  
Old 15.05.2016, 21:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There are too many layers for these things to go through for accurate accounting. The UK would be better being in charge of its own finances so we, the UK public, know where our money is going.
The Court of Auditors have signed off on the accounts every year since 2007 and yes in 2014 the reported that about 4.4% was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations, furthermore it pointed out that this was not the result of fraud, inefficiency or waste.
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Old 15.05.2016, 22:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Court of Auditors have signed off on the accounts every year since 2007 and yes in 2014 the reported that about 4.4% was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations, furthermore it pointed out that this was not the result of fraud, inefficiency or waste.
But each year a large amount is lost to exactly this ? http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1657260.ece

I don't see how the two positions tally ?
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  #696  
Old 16.05.2016, 01:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You got a mortgage of 10.8 times joint salary, quite unbelievable TBH.
..........
More like 1x salary, right?
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  #697  
Old 16.05.2016, 04:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You got a mortgage of 10.8 times joint salary, quite unbelievable TBH.

I guess your friend did not have a full structural survey......

Easy credit such as car loans or leasing at very low rates
Easy credit such as free balance transfers on credit cards 0% for 2 years
Easy credit with mortgages offered at more than 3 times salary
Easy credit with mortgages with just 5% deposit.
The government giving interest free loans for 5 years of 20% of the purchase price, 40% in London.

All is available today..........
Easy credit, another way of saying people don't have money anymore but they still need you to buy shit.

You list a whole shitload of stuff that should be seen negatively.

You need a car to work, but can't afford one.
You have to juggle your credit cards to get reasonable offers
You can't afford a house anymore
You can't afford the deposit for a house anymore
The government is starting to realise there's a serious problem and hopes to make it go away for a few years by getting you further in debt.
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Old 16.05.2016, 04:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It's not that I think easy access to credit is a bad thing, it's just that I don't think the average citizen should have no choice but to live with debt.
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  #699  
Old 16.05.2016, 09:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Is uk govenrment as a biz still going? Are we the investors or the customers?

If we're the investors, why are we in debt? If we're the customers, congrats UK gov on taking all our money and persuading us to take out loans to keep you employed.
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Old 16.05.2016, 16:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Just watched a recent documentary on the subject giving the case for leaving.


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