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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #721  
Old 16.05.2016, 18:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What is leaving the EU going to do for me, a UK national living in the middle of a country landlocked in the EU?
How should I know? I know nothing about you or your circumstances.

But I would hope there would be bigger issues to think about than the effect a British withdrawal would have on a few thousand Brits living in Switzerland.
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  #722  
Old 16.05.2016, 18:15
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As a self interested person, and any of the other UK nationals, what benefits will you gain from leaving the EU?

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How should I know? I know nothing about you or your circumstances.

But I would hope there would be bigger issues to think about than the effect a British withdrawal would have on a few thousand Brits living in Switzerland.
What is it with you, you think it's about the few thousand who live here? You think switzerland is the only country in the EU with UK nationals in it?

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How should I know? I know nothing about you or your circumstances.

But I would hope there would be bigger issues to think about than the effect a British withdrawal would have on a few thousand Brits living in Switzerland.
Let's try and spell it out to you. I am not the 1%, I came here thanks to a great job, it was easy, I got in a van and moved here. This EU thing is great for me.

Now you tell me, what will I gain from voting to leave the EU? That's easy isn't it, that's what you want, you want a case. I gave you a case, now give me yours. Tell me how leaving the EU will make you better off.

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:43. Reason: Let's get that Multi-Quote thingy working...
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  #723  
Old 16.05.2016, 18:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I've got bugger all.

I'm a voter waiting for persuasive arguments, and only seeming to get them from one side.
yeah? which side is that?
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  #724  
Old 16.05.2016, 19:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You got a mortgage of 10.8 times joint salary, quite unbelievable TBH.

I guess your friend did not have a full structural survey......
Your maths are atrocious, and you don't get full structural surveys on brand new houses which are covered by the NHBC 10yr guarantee.

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More like 1x salary, right?
1.6x joint salary. Luckily, it was only 2.4x my sole salary so I was able to keep it after the divorce and still have it now 20yrs since I bought it.
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  #725  
Old 16.05.2016, 19:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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  #726  
Old 16.05.2016, 19:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Your maths are atrocious, and you don't get full structural surveys on brand new houses which are covered by the NHBC 10yr guarantee.
I got a full structural survey on a new property, both during the build & on completion. Various work was not up to standard which is not unusual, it paid for itself as plenty of remedial work done before completion.
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  #727  
Old 16.05.2016, 19:38
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Oh blimey, I almost forgot that the UK now suffers yearly floods, I was so paranoid about it one of the plus sides of my flat when I was looking for it was the fact it was on a hill.

TBH, most of britains young population would be better off if they moved out of the UK and into other EU countries, they could afford rent and go out instead of paying off the baby boomers mortgages.

London was always a bastion for nightlife and it's easy to point to that, but has anyone been out in their local towns nowadays? There might as well be tumble weeds, there's more going in in the little town of Luzern than larger towns in the UK, not chain pubs either, lot's of little vibrant spots run by locals, something you see all over europe, but strangely not the UK.

Haha, I almost forgot, britains high rents have priced out all small busniesses too, damn the EU!

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:44. Reason: Let's get that Multi-Quote thingy working...
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  #728  
Old 16.05.2016, 19:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Thanks for the link AdFab. It's made me watch both sides of the debate, probably because I abhor Hannan but he made good points.
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  #729  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a self interested person, and any of the other UK nationals, what benefits will you gain from leaving the EU?
The UK on leaving the EU would gain, as I understand it:

1. More or full control of their borders so they can let in or not let in people that they wish or need to while not being bound to the free movement of people under the EU.
2. A greater control of their own law making so for example EU dictats on things which the UK must accept would no longer be the situation.
3. A fully democratic government, so the likes of Neil kinnock, who was rejected by the British people twice, but then became arguably more powerful than many government ministers by becoming a senior eu official without any democratic say from the British people, should come to an end.
4. Less wage dumping because people will find it harder to turn up and work for a lower rate because they are just visiting and sending all their money home where it's cheaper, living on the breadline then leaving. This should hopefully mean better wages for the lower skilled classes in Britain.

I'm sure there are loads more. On the other side there are trade agreements that must be sorted out, the great unknown and its effect financially and of course that many of the EU dictats mentioned earlier are really great things that force Britain to adopt standards it wouldn't normally agree to.

That's what I can tell so far anyway, mind you I'm no genius when it comes to this thing, however that's it as I see it without attempting to belittle, accuse of racism, accuse of xenophobia or all the other things the leave campaign seem determined to do whenever anyone even mentions that leaving the EU might suit them.

I haven't registered to vote, if that matters!
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  #730  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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London was always a bastion for nightlife and it's easy to point to that, but has anyone been out in their local towns nowadays? There might as well be tumble weeds, there's more going in in the little town of Luzern than larger towns in the UK, not chain pubs either, lot's of little vibrant spots run by locals, something you see all over europe, but strangely not the UK.
I'd completely disagree with this. Most small towns still have their own local pubs it's very much business as normal. Where are you getting the data for this from ?
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  #731  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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TBH, most of britains young population would be better off if they moved out of the UK and into other EU countries, they could afford rent and go out instead of paying off the baby boomers mortgages.
Britains economy is doing very well compared to europes though. So in fact they would be better staying put instead of going to, perhaps, Greece, which I thought wasn't doing that well.
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  #732  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:25
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Britains economy is doing very well compared to europes though. So in fact they would be better staying put instead of going to, perhaps, Greece, which I thought wasn't doing that well.

You tell me that, but I don't see it.

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I'd completely disagree with this. Most small towns still have their own local pubs it's very much business as normal. Where are you getting the data for this from ?
Not data, personal experience, UK pub culture is not what it used to be.

In my old town over half the pubs have closed, the ones left are empty

Sure gastro pubs have risen, but young people going out? naahh.

The UK is notorious for it's drinking and it's problem, but depriving all young people of money to go out is not the way to fix things.

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:44. Reason: Let's get that Multi-Quote thingy working...
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  #733  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sure gastro pubs have risen, but young people going out? naahh.

The UK is notorious for it's drinking and it's problem, but depriving all young people of money to go out is not the way to fix things.
Ok so I don't know how to use the multi quote thingy but based on your last few replies it's fairly clear then that any statement starting 'the UK is' actually means 'last time I went back to my home village I found that..'
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  #734  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:37
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And thats the thing with UKs problems, inflation figures don't show the true cost of rising rent and mortgages, shelter is a basic need for everyone, but it's not taken into account when considering the purchasing power of new generations. Sure, your pound still pays for beer, but you have less of those little pounds coz you have to pay for a place to live, while inflation may be low, younger people are still worse off in what they can spend money on.

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Ok so I don't know how to use the multi quote thingy but based on your last few replies it's fairly clear then that any statement starting 'the UK is' actually means 'last time I went back to my home village I found that..'
Yes, and I'll stand by it, could you give facts against it?

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Yes, and I'll stand by it, could you give facts against it?
LOL, http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...r-tax-campaign

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Finally had this debate with close friends in the UK, largely because one of my mates was worried her husband was wavering after watching the Brexit film. If anyone has a link to a list of the people who crowdfunded the film, I'd like to see who of note is on there as currently, the list is only available to contributers. Funny that for a film crying out for transparency... Very contentious film maker too.


The way my personal situation is, the final result doesn't really affect me on that level. I feel I'm in the fortunate position of being able to look beyond a "What's in it for me?" approach.

So, my question is now "What's in it for them?", 'them' being the leave campaigners and others who have spoken up about wanting the Brexit to happen.


In the poll shown on 'Peston On Sunday' this week, the No.1 concern for Stay was the economy, and the No.1 concern for Leave was immigration. Both of these results were so huge that they overshadowed all other issues combined.


When it comes to the economic impact, none of us really know precisely how the UK will be impacted and how long it will take to recover from the immediate hit. None of us know precisely what shape the UK economy will be in 12mths down the line. It's all pure speculation.


What I do know is there are people and groups who want to see the demise of the EU, people outside of the UK with their own agenda are hoping Brexit will happen. This is a matter of fact and freely available in the public domain.

Geert Wilders is one of these people.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ign-referendum

Marie Le Pen is another...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6998771.html


Add to this the rise again of the FPO in Austria, Golden Dawn in Greece, etc, and I completely believe the far right is on the rise and wants to break up the EU.


Even Michael Gove of the Leave campaign, has recognised this rise, but he blames the EU for it. If he said water is wet I'd check for myself.
Yeah, don't really need a crowd funded video to make my case.

And they think there gonna stop paying money to the EU???

In short, I used to be furious that the EU changed my passport, but that's a really stupid thing to be upset over.

Thanks to the EU I'm actually free to move away from the morons who vote against their self interests for principles that won't ever apply to them. I really like the socialist streak in the EU,I really like that companies have to label food correctly, I enjoy free movement around europe, my pension, my savings, I can move them where I want. Leaving the EU will do nothing for me, and let's face it, unless you're a billionare living here for tax reasons, leaving the EU is gonna give you nothing but a smug face.

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:47. Reason: Let's get that Multi-Quote thingy working...
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  #735  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Now you tell me, what will I gain from voting to leave the EU? That's easy isn't it, that's what you want, you want a case. I gave you a case, now give me yours. Tell me how leaving the EU will make you better off.
I agree, we hear a lot of bluster from the leave camp, but there are no figures because the future cannot be predicted with any accuracy at all.

What can be predicted is that people like the Barclay brothers will then be free from EU rules and regulations, and so will be able to abuse their position. A previous owner of BHS (Green) has been able to legally take the BHS pension fund, just as Maxwell robbed the Mirror pensioners before. There must be dozens of opportunities to make money without the EU restrictions.

Britain will save the small cost the country pays Europe for the EU membership, but then it will be unwelcome in Europe. European companies will be able to take over our European markets, as Britain will be forced to sell at higher prices there. (Increased taxes & duty) The steel industry has taken a beating from the Chinese across Europe, the EU has let them sell us cheap steel. I think that is a taste of the future, Britain without the EU will be very weak, stuff will be dumped, and Britain will have no means of avoiding bankruptcy.

Britain is a very small country in a very big world. How will it compete with the EU, the USA and China? Maybe Britain will keep hold of the financial markets in the short term, but Frankfurt and Paris are already trying to prise those away from London.

What does Britain have that the rest of the world really needs? Not much: Dyson cleaners, Whiskey and oil? Much of the rest belongs to foreign companies. Will Honda, Nissan, Ford etc continue to pay UK wages when the European market has EU tariffs and there are perfectly good workers in Poland and other countries?
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  #736  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Finally had this debate with close friends in the UK, largely because one of my mates was worried her husband was wavering after watching the Brexit film. If anyone has a link to a list of the people who crowdfunded the film, I'd like to see who of note is on there as currently, the list is only available to contributers. Funny that for a film crying out for transparency... Very contentious film maker too.


The way my personal situation is, the final result doesn't really affect me on that level. I feel I'm in the fortunate position of being able to look beyond a "What's in it for me?" approach.

So, my question is now "What's in it for them?", 'them' being the leave campaigners and others who have spoken up about wanting the Brexit to happen.


In the poll shown on 'Peston On Sunday' this week, the No.1 concern for Stay was the economy, and the No.1 concern for Leave was immigration. Both of these results were so huge that they overshadowed all other issues combined.


When it comes to the economic impact, none of us really know precisely how the UK will be impacted and how long it will take to recover from the immediate hit. None of us know precisely what shape the UK economy will be in 12mths down the line. It's all pure speculation.


What I do know is there are people and groups who want to see the demise of the EU, people outside of the UK with their own agenda are hoping Brexit will happen. This is a matter of fact and freely available in the public domain.

Geert Wilders is one of these people.
Quote:
The leader of the far-right Dutch Freedom party, Geert Wilders, described the result as “the beginning of the end of the EU”.
Geert Wilders, leader of the Dutch Freedom party, said the no vote spelled ‘the beginning of the end of the EU’. He was quickly followed by the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, who was in Amsterdam on Monday and greeted the results with a “hooray”. He said Dutch no campaigners would be coming to Britain before June’s referendum.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ign-referendum

Marie Le Pen is another...
Quote:
Brexit campaigners have shunned the leader of France’s far-right Front National, Marine Le Pen, ahead of her controversial visit to Britain to express support for those wishing to leave the European Union.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6998771.html


Add to this the rise again of the FPO in Austria, Golden Dawn in Greece, etc, and I completely believe the far right is on the rise and wants to break up the EU.


Even Michael Gove of the Leave campaign, has recognised this rise, but he blames the EU for it. If he said water is wet I'd check for myself.
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  #737  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Im not sure why it's funny, it's good data, unfortunately not the statement you originally claimed that was the villages were 'empty', but if you had put across something intelligent to start with and backed it up with this, then that would have been a well thought out posting, which would have been roundly accepted.

On the economy one Britain is doing well, any quick search shows it up http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...George-Osborne.
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  #738  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I agree, we hear a lot of bluster from the leave camp, but there are no figures because the future cannot be predicted with any accuracy at all.

What can be predicted is that people like the Barclay brothers will then be free from EU rules and regulations, and so will be able to abuse their position. A previous owner of BHS (Green) has been able to legally take the BHS pension fund, just as Maxwell robbed the Mirror pensioners before. There must be dozens of opportunities to make money without the EU restrictions.

Britain will save the small cost the country pays Europe for the EU membership, but then it will be unwelcome in Europe. European companies will be able to take over our European markets, as Britain will be forced to sell at higher prices there. (Increased taxes & duty) The steel industry has taken a beating from the Chinese across Europe, the EU has let them sell us cheap steel. I think that is a taste of the future, Britain without the EU will be very weak, stuff will be dumped, and Britain will have no means of avoiding bankruptcy.

Britain is a very small country in a very big world. How will it compete with the EU, the USA and China? Maybe Britain will keep hold of the financial markets in the short term, but Frankfurt and Paris are already trying to prise those away from London.

What does Britain have that the rest of the world really needs? Not much: Dyson cleaners, Whiskey and oil? Much of the rest belongs to foreign companies. Will Honda, Nissan, Ford etc continue to pay UK wages when the European market has EU tariffs and there are perfectly good workers in Poland and other countries?
The 'small cost the country pays for eu membership?'. Do you actually have the figure to hand ?
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  #739  
Old 16.05.2016, 20:56
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Im not sure why it's funny, it's good data, unfortunately not the statement you originally claimed that was the villages were 'empty', but if you had put across something intelligent to start with and backed it up with this, then that would have been a well thought out posting, which would have been roundly accepted.

On the economy one Britain is doing well, any quick search shows it up http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...George-Osborne.
I don't think I said villages were empty, my point was more that nightlife in the UK is dying, and I think it's because the youth have no spending money.

If you're a middle aged, middle class guy, maybe it all looks peachy, but I think it's the sign of a dying economy.

Don't forget that now a large part of britains economy is international finance. Just coz banks trade billions out of the uk doesn't mean the average joe sees a rise in his pay packet.

Lets get on the next one, military spending dwarfs the EU budget, the UK continoues to do the US's bidding in wars most of europe manages to avoid, what are the more racist elements of Brexit gonna do to help that?

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The 'small cost the country pays for eu membership?'. Do you actually have the figure to hand ?
In most cases, 1-2 % is considered small.

Like say, if I told you I had to pay out 153 million in taxes, that would seem big, but if i told you that that was after all my tax dodging and actually only amoount to 5 percent of my income, you'd start to wonder why you have to pav 30%

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:49. Reason: Let's get that Multi-Quote thingy working...
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  #740  
Old 16.05.2016, 21:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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When I bought my house, I put down a deposit just short of 10%, which was equivalent to approx 12% of our joint annual income.
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You got a mortgage of 10.8 times joint salary, quite unbelievable TBH.
Yes, that would be unbelievable if that was what Blueangel had said. But it's not. S/he implied that s/he borrowed just over 90% of the purchase price, with the loan amounting to 88% of joint annual income — i.e. a multiple of 1.14 x income. Sounds eminently reasonable (and manageable, almost regardless of the interest rate).

ETA: Phil_MCR picked you up on this too. Apologies, I've been away from this thread for a while.
FETA: So did Blueangel. So many new posts in this thread...

Last edited by 22 yards; 16.05.2016 at 22:52.
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