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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #921  
Old 28.05.2016, 09:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This was maybe the case 20 years ago, but now we have the situation where eastern Europeans are doing far more than just fruit picking.

For example, you fly into England, you go to the car hire desk and there's a good chance you'll be served by a girl from Lithuania. You go to a restaurant or cafe and your waitress will more likely than not be Estonian. Go to any building site and you'll find the vast majority of skilled labour there is Polish.

I've got nothing against these people and they work very hard and well. But it makes you wonder what the hell all the Brits are doing that used to do these types jobs? And if this carries on, where will the UK end up?
Given that UK unemployment is at a 10 year low I guess there simply aren't enough locals ready willing and able to do those jobs. This being so and accepting that those jobs need doing what is the alternative?
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  #922  
Old 28.05.2016, 10:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Finally the Leave Camp gets around to explaining the economic case for Brexit. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/10141932?1464264024&
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  #923  
Old 29.05.2016, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Given that UK unemployment is at a 10 year low I guess there simply aren't enough locals ready willing and able to do those jobs. This being so and accepting that those jobs need doing what is the alternative?
Cut out the majority of benefits and get those British people out there working in those jobs instead. Look at the list for heaven's sake.

https://www.gov.uk/browse/benefits

Do we really need all of these?
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  #924  
Old 29.05.2016, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Last time they tried London burnt down. So it's all EU's fault then isn't it?
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  #925  
Old 29.05.2016, 16:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Finally the Leave Camp gets around to explaining the economic case for Brexit. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/10141932?1464264024&
Not really! Take for example:

Quote:
Before we joined, our share of the European market was pathetic, at about 4%. After we joined, over about a decade and a half, it doubled, to 8%
Such a statement totally ignores the reality that in march of this year exports to the EU represented 48% of UK total exports.

Quote:
Indeed the first calling point of the UK's negotiator in the time immediately after Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike the deal: absolute access for German cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a sensible deal on everything else.

Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations.
Well this is just plain stupid! Firstly if fails to take account of the fact that 48% of UK exports in March of this year were to the EU and secondly such deals are not possible under the treaties, The idea that member states would risk the break up of the union to do a deal with the UK is just nonsense.
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  #926  
Old 29.05.2016, 16:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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such deals are not possible under the treaties, The idea that member states would risk the break up of the union to do a deal with the UK is just nonsense.
that's why it is likely the EU will sign a free trade deal with the UK.
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  #927  
Old 29.05.2016, 16:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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that's why it is likely the EU will sign a free trade deal with the UK.
Really not likely, they will use UK as an example of the bad things that happen to countries that leave the EU.

Quote; "Juncker says on Brexit: British 'deserters' to get no EU favor

Senior EU officials say they see no appetite among member states for lengthy and distracting negotiations with London or for helping Britain avoid disruption after severing its EU ties -- not least to discourage Eurosceptics elsewhere."

Source
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  #928  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I wish the "Leave" campaigners will sit quietly for 10 minutes and consider the consequences of their actions.

Quote from above link:
The EU treaty sets a two-year limit for negotiating terms on which a member state leaves. Without unanimous
agreement, or all 28 states agreeing to extend talks, the departing state is then excluded from the bloc.
Many Brexit campaigners say they want to negotiate a free trade deal and other terms to continue links to the EU,
but many diplomats doubt that can be achieved in two years.
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  #929  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And what of the consequences if we remain?

Increasingly less influence, not that we have much to start with, with more and more countries joining the EU in future. That'll really help our chances of reforming the whole system.

We don't know what will happen until we try.
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  #930  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wish the "Leave" campaigners will sit quietly for 10 minutes and consider the consequences of their actions.

Quote from above link:
The EU treaty sets a two-year limit for negotiating terms on which a member state leaves. Without unanimous
agreement, or all 28 states agreeing to extend talks, the departing state is then excluded from the bloc.
Many Brexit campaigners say they want to negotiate a free trade deal and other terms to continue links to the EU,
but many diplomats doubt that can be achieved in two years.
I simply do not see why the EU would want to reward UK with a quick and easy free trade deal.

For those "leavers" who believe the EU will behave reasonably and that the EU believes that there are benefits in a quick and easy free trade deal with the UK instead of taking punitive and delaying actions - I would ask "why do you want to leave such a fair and reasonable Union?". Isn't this contrary to your opinions about the EU?
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  #931  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Really not likely, they will use UK as an example of the bad things that happen to countries that leave the EU.

Quote; "Juncker says on Brexit: British 'deserters' to get no EU favor

Senior EU officials say they see no appetite among member states for lengthy and distracting negotiations with London or for helping Britain avoid disruption after severing its EU ties -- not least to discourage Eurosceptics elsewhere."

Source
If having free trade is economically benefit for both parties then it would make sense to enter into such an agreement. If they would not enter such an agreement it proves that the EU acts to economically disadvantage its members.
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  #932  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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that's why it is likely the EU will sign a free trade deal with the UK.
If it does come to a negotiation the UK will be presented with tree options: Join the EEA and accept FMOP, contributions etc, accept, WTO terms or apply for full EU membership with the EURO, because they are the only options that all 28 are in agreement on.

A trade agreement has very little to offer eastern members and they will need to demonstrate their strong resistance to anything else in front of their electorate who have just lost access to the honey pot.
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  #933  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If having free trade is economically benefit for both parties then it would make sense to enter into such an agreement. If they would not enter such an agreement it proves that the EU acts to economically disadvantage its members.
Your arguments for leaving the EU are somehow contradictory to your view on how the EU will behave towards UK after Brexit?
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  #934  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If it does come to a negotiation the UK will be presented with tree options: Join the EEA and accept FMOP, contributions etc, accept, WTO terms or apply for full EU membership with the EURO, because they are the only options that all 28 are in agreement on.

A trade agreement has very little to offer eastern members and they will need to demonstrate their strong resistance to anything else in front of their electorate who have just lost access to the honey pot.
I think we will accept WTO and see if we can negotiate FTA. If not, the UK will just collect more money from tariffs with the EU.
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  #935  
Old 29.05.2016, 18:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Your arguments for leaving the EU are somehow contradictory to your view on how the EU will behave towards UK after Brexit?
I think the biggest arguments for brexit are:

- regain power previously transferred to the EU
- be able to regain control of foreign trade outside of the EU customs union
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  #936  
Old 29.05.2016, 19:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Many Brexit campaigners say they want to negotiate a free trade deal and other terms to continue links to the EU,
but many diplomats doubt that can be achieved in two years.
It won't be because it takes the EU forever to negotiate these things according to the article PhilM quoted.
But it will be both ways, so the EU loses too.
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  #937  
Old 29.05.2016, 19:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think the biggest arguments for brexit are:

- regain power previously transferred to the EU
- be able to regain control of foreign trade outside of the EU customs union
Oddly enough those are the arguments that make me want to stay in the EU!

Who do you trust in the UK Govt. to handle more power, Corbyn?

When the EU has free trade agreements with all the major foreign powers then what will that leave for the UK?
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  #938  
Old 29.05.2016, 19:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And what of the consequences if we remain?

Increasingly less influence, not that we have much to start with, with more and more countries joining the EU in future. That'll really help our chances of reforming the whole system.

We don't know what will happen until we try.
The UK has been used to the ways of the EEC & EU for the past 40 years, that is known, the future will no doubt be much the same.

After 40 years we have no idea what life will be like outside the EU. New Zealand and Australia suffered after 1972 when the UK joined up with Europe.
Nobody in the leave camp has predicted anything with any certainty, except they are very good at telling us everything is going to be better.

Why should it?
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  #939  
Old 29.05.2016, 20:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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When the EU has free trade agreements with all the major foreign powers then what will that leave for the UK?
This makes no sense.
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  #940  
Old 30.05.2016, 09:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Many of the Remain campaign are adamant that the key to victory lies in persuading young voters to turn out come the day of the vote. When you look at youth unemployment across the EU, it makes you wonder why.

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