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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #961  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Do you have a problem that the elected Tory party are able to create new legislation too?
Absolutely because the majority of British voters didn't vote Tory, but the UK is a democracy so I have to respect that.


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But he/she is only one of 28 other members. And the UK has no influence in who is chosen from other countries. Yet remarkably they have an influence on new EU laws which affect the UK.
What's remarkable about other countries using the democratic process to represent their best interests in their own country, and thereby, in EU decision making? That's what happens in all group decision making...you find the common ground and work on that.
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  #962  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Absolutely because the majority of British voters didn't vote Tory, but the UK is a democracy so I have to respect that.


What's remarkable about other countries using the democratic process to represent their best interests in their own country, and thereby, in EU decision making? That's what happens in all group decision making...you find the common ground and work on that.
Exactly the majority of British voters DIDN'T vote Conservative. Although it is also worth mentioning that a GREATER majority of British voters DIDN'T vote Labour.

Also a GREATER number of voters backed the Lib Dems (7.9%) than the SNP (4.7%) and yet walked away with 8 seats (vs 56).

The greater tragedy is that none of the 27 Monster Raving Loony Party candidates won a seat.
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  #963  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think the biggest arguments for brexit are:

- regain power previously transferred to the EU
If you have even the most minimal concern for..:
  • The environment
  • Human rights
  • Working conditions for the employed
Be very grateful some powers have been shared with the EU. My trust in the current undemocratic UK government to handle any of these you could fit in a matchbox without taking the matches out first.

Last edited by baboon; 31.05.2016 at 14:39.
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  #964  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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1. Negotiating an FTA doesn't mean you can't negotiate with anyone else
2. The UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world
3. Having a trade agreement negotiated by the UK actually means the UK can get one that benefits the UK instead of a hodge podge of compromises that is tailored to the rest of the EU (given the differences between the UK and rest of EU economy). Currently the EU negotiated trade deals may not be in the UK interest
4. The UK economy has a huge service component - something that the EU cares so little about that they haven't even opened up the internal EU service trade (mostly as an internal protectionist measure against the UK). It is also reflected in the fact that that 2 in 3 EU trade deals even covers trade in services!

The UK would be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU and faster too. The UK has been harmed during its period of membership in the EU during which it has been blocked from concluding its own trade agreements.
"Currently the EU negotiated trade deals may not be in the UK interest" do you have concrete examples?

"The UK would be able to negotiate better trade deals than the EU and faster too" Wishful thinking

"The UK has been harmed..." Concrete examples?

"It is also reflected in the fact that that 2 in 3 EU trade deals even covers trade in services!" What do you mean?

"The UK economy has a huge service component" Which is greatly benefited by the EU freedom of movement.
It is easy to forget how difficult it would be to work without this; one time I had to organise some product training using non-EU trainers - it took months to get the visas and considerably delayed the project completion
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  #965  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Thus proving he's 15 years old.

David Cameron, the elected head of state, chooses the Britain's EU Commissioner. Do you have a problem that the elected Tory party are able to create new legislation too? Elected MEPs are also able to block the Commissioner that Cameron has chosen.

So we've established that the process for choosing an EU commissioner is fair for Britain.

But he/she is only one of 28 other members. And the UK has no influence in who is chosen from other countries. Yet remarkably they have an influence on new EU laws which affect the UK.
"the UK has no influence in who is chosen from other countries" Please read your point "Elected MEPs are also able to block the Commissioners" - you do know there are UK elected MEPs?
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  #966  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Exactly the majority of British voters DIDN'T vote Conservative. Although it is also worth mentioning that a GREATER majority of British voters DIDN'T vote Labour.

Also a GREATER number of voters backed the Lib Dems (7.9%) that the SNP (4.7%) and yet walked away with 8 seats (vs 56).

The greater tragedy is that none of the 27 Monster Raving Loony Party candidates won a seat.


Since 1983, I've voted Liberal /Lib Dem in every local and national election, with the one abberation of a desperate Labour vote in '97, so you can imagine my feelings on the matter.

It always amazes me how many Monster Raving Loony Party policies are mainstream now. Reckon he was just before his time in many ways.

EDIT: Just to expand, and lay my cards on the table to a degree, when it comes to British party politics, if the Lib Dems had Paddy back at the helm, and Labour had Alan Johnson (even though he doesn't want the job) the Tory's wouldn't see the light of day. Both of those men command my resepct.
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  #967  
Old 31.05.2016, 13:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"the UK has no influence in who is chosen from other countries" Please read your point "Elected MEPs are also able to block the Commissioners" - you do know there are UK elected MEPs?
The UK has 73 MEPs. There are 751 MEPs in total. They have essentially no influence.

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EDIT: Just to expand, and lay my cards on the table to a degree, when it comes to British party politics, if the Lib Dems had Paddy back at the helm, and Labour had Alan Johnson (even though he doesn't want the job) the Tory's wouldn't see the light of day. Both of those men command my resepct.
Lol.
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  #968  
Old 31.05.2016, 13:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

How do you guys expect the referendum to impact the EUR/CHF rate on a short term?

I think that if the answer is no to Brexit, then the euro could go up for some time, close to 1,20 CHF. Does this make sense?
I'd like to transfer some euros back to CH (the money I took out when I moved to Germany, and because I was lucky I paid some 1,03 CHF per EUR back then ).
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  #969  
Old 31.05.2016, 13:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK has 73 MEPs. There are 751 MEPs in total. They have essentially no influence.
This kind of attitude is the reason why I'd like to see the UK out of the EU.
The MEPs are not supposed to vote based on where they are from but based on their political platform.

Please vote leave (seriously).
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  #970  
Old 31.05.2016, 13:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This kind of attitude is the reason why I'd like to see the UK out of the EU.
The MEPs are not supposed to vote based on where they are from but based on their political platform.

Please vote leave (seriously).
Ah yes, the famous one size fits all that is EU politics. The idea that a "party" can fight for social justice in France whilst a the same time looking out for turnip farmers in Romania is laughable. But hopefully your wish will come true come 23rd June.
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  #971  
Old 31.05.2016, 14:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm pro-Europe but totally against the EU in its current form. It's the most antidemocratic organisation I can think off, making crap decisions that affect all its citizens. I'll definitely be voting out.
Um... when did you vote for the home secretary, the foreign secretary, the minister of agriculture or anyone else in the UK Government?

These leaders that make the rules in the UK are politicians appointed by the prime minister. I don't see any benefits under this system against having professional managers, appointed by the EU making rules for 250 million people.

When I look at the quality of the UK politicians that are supporting the leave camp, I dread the result if they win the referendum.
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  #972  
Old 31.05.2016, 14:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Um... when did you vote for the home secretary, the foreign secretary, the minister of agriculture or anyone else in the UK Government?

These leaders that make the rules in the UK are politicians appointed by the prime minister. I don't see any benefits under this system against having professional managers, appointed by the EU making rules for 250 million people.

When I look at the quality of the UK politicians that are supporting the leave camp, I dread the result if they win the referendum.
I've said numerous times on here that I don't like the UK's political system. And I'd happily see it abolished for PR and direct democracy.

In the very least though at least you have the opportunity to get rid of a political party if you don't like what they've done. What you're proposing is Marxism.
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  #973  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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professional managers, appointed by the EU making rules for 250 million people.
That's how Stalin ran the USSR, isn't it?
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  #974  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

"over wide areas are a vast, quivering mass of tormented, hungry, careworn and bewildered human beings, who wait in the ruins of their cities and homes and scan the dark horizons for the approach of some new form of tyranny or terror."

Winston Churchill - 1946.

Let's not bleeding well forget that eh.
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  #975  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

This all reminds me of a song:


http://www.theguardian.com/global/vi...ideo-explainer
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  #976  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah yes, the famous one size fits all that is EU politics. The idea that a "party" can fight for social justice in France whilst a the same time looking out for turnip farmers in Romania is laughable. But hopefully your wish will come true come 23rd June.
Which party do you mean?
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  #977  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"over wide areas are a vast, quivering mass of tormented, hungry, careworn and bewildered human beings, who wait in the ruins of their cities and homes and scan the dark horizons for the approach of some new form of tyranny or terror."

Winston Churchill - 1946.

Let's not bleeding well forget that eh.

Yup. Thank goodness for NATO, eh?
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  #978  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Which party do you mean?
Take your pick. Europe is so diverse that there is no political platform that can be applied in the same way across the continent.
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  #979  
Old 31.05.2016, 16:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Take your pick. Europe is so diverse that there is no political platform that can be applied in the same way across the continent.
I thought the thing about the French social justice and the Romanian turnip farmers was referring to something specific.

In any event, I strongly disagree with you.
As much as in any country, the liberals will push for liberal policies, the socialists with push for "socialist" policies (like Blair's Labour government did in the UK or the French government is doing right now), the conservatives will push for conservative policies etc.

It's your expectation that the British MEPs should vote for "British" policies that convinces me that your country should actually be asked to leave the EU. Not allowed to leave the EU but actively asked to leave.
The UK being part of the EU never worked and never will. CDG was right.

And this without any kind of bitterness. We are just too different.
So let's part ways in a friendly and mature manner.
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  #980  
Old 31.05.2016, 16:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK has 73 MEPs. There are 751 MEPs in total. They have essentially no influence.



Lol.
wow, that's nearly 10%, There are more than 11 countries in the EU so we actually have quite a big say in the EU parliament, if our MEPs ever turned up to bloody work that is.
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