Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1021  
Old 01.06.2016, 15:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,794
Groaned at 158 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 9,894 Times in 3,333 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Why should the leavers do that?

Isn't that the government's job?

If you call a referendum you need top be prepared to put into place contingency plans for both scenarios.
Governments are using the ostrich-approach
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #1022  
Old 01.06.2016, 15:34
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,574
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,476 Times in 5,732 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That is not a plan, that is a wish.

As mentioned a plan has as a minimum detailed resources and a list of steps with target dates and deliverables.
It's not about a plan, it is about a direction. The choice we have is whether we want to be in a European Federal Superstate or outside of it.

There's no plan or deadline for how the EU federal superstate will come either, it is also just a direction, except with the twist that we would not be the ones in control of it, but instead we will be dragged along with the tide of QMV.

The French and Germans make no secret about ever closer union, yet the remain crowd cling onto the belief that we will remain with the status quo. The future within the EU and the road to a EU superstate is also a huge unknown, it is just that people get used to it as it is introduced gradually.

For me this is a pivotal moment in British history, it will be the UK's chance to leave a bureaucratic, protectionist customs union (which as aspirations of monetary, fiscal and political union) to chart its own way, as it has done successfully for many centuries. It's normal to experience trepidation at change and the unknown, but Britain has faced it in the past and thrived and it will do so again as long as the people are not afraid to give it a try and take this first step to freedom and self-determination.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #1023  
Old 01.06.2016, 16:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 3,866
Groaned at 94 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 5,414 Times in 2,020 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It's a bit more complicated than that. If he would live outside the Netherlands or EU for a period of more than 10 years after reaching the age of majority he would lose his Dutch nationality.

To prevent this he would need to be resident in NL or EU for at least one year or by applying for a new passport.

Quote:
View Post
Your son wil not lose his dual citizenship NL/UK as he has both now being under 18 years old. He should never let the NL passport expire as he would not get a new one. He may also get a CH passport depending of course on your time here etc.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #1024  
Old 01.06.2016, 16:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,794
Groaned at 158 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 9,894 Times in 3,333 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It's a bit more complicated than that. If he would live outside the Netherlands or EU for a period of more than 10 years after reaching the age of majority he would lose his Dutch nationality.

To prevent this he would need to be resident in NL or EU for at least one year or by applying for a new passport.
No, Tinkiwinki's statement is correct. You don't need to be a resident of NL or a EU country.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #1025  
Old 01.06.2016, 16:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 3,866
Groaned at 94 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 5,414 Times in 2,020 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

You're right - he could just renew his passport each time.

I had to re-read the Wiki article a few times before seeing that part.

Nevertheless, an out would make it awkward for us to live as a family in an EU country or the UK - unless the UK does a freedom-of-movement deal with the EU.

Quote:
View Post
No, Tinkiwinki's statement is correct. You don't need to be a resident of NL or a EU country.
Reply With Quote
  #1026  
Old 01.06.2016, 16:46
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,593
Groaned at 171 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 8,863 Times in 4,860 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The mandarins in whitehall have been on the case

But I would personally prefer that no immediate deal is done and that the UK moves onto WTO terms for a period of time to help push the economy into looking towards non-EU markets.
"The mandarins in whitehall have been on the case" If so, they should publish some estimates of what is involved.

"UK moves onto WTO terms" They are very high level and do not cover matters like, for example, product acceptance testing, quotas and tariffs.
Reply With Quote
  #1027  
Old 01.06.2016, 18:57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 467
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 700 Times in 410 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't be too worried about a British exit vote. The strategie of inducing fear into the voters will do its work. As it did in the Schotland referendum.
The difference with the Scottish referendum was that elderly voters tended to support Scotland remaining in the UK, whereas in this EU referendum, they tend to support Brexit. Unfortunately (for Remain), older voters are more likely to vote than younger ones. It was apparently thanks to older voters that David Cameron won the last election.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ut-poll-brexit
Latest polls show Brexit ahead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-poll-reveals
It looks as if scaremongering about immigration is doing its work. I just heard today that an elderly relative is currently undecided, but is worried about "all the immigrants being let into the country" and Islam. This is despite living nowhere near immigrants, let alone Muslim ones, let alone Muslim EU immigrants.

So perhaps the strategy of inducing fear will do its work - in favour of Brexit.
Reply With Quote
  #1028  
Old 01.06.2016, 19:01
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,593
Groaned at 171 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 8,863 Times in 4,860 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Why should the leavers do that?

Isn't that the government's job?

If you call a referendum you need top be prepared to put into place contingency plans for both scenarios.
Whoever does the job it would be nice to have some idea of the size and cost of the tasks we are facing to implement "Leave".
I doubt it is large enough to impact the size of people's govt pensions but we are currently all in the dark
Reply With Quote
  #1029  
Old 01.06.2016, 19:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 739
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 344 Times in 238 Posts
Tinkiwinki has earned some respectTinkiwinki has earned some respect
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
You're right - he could just renew his passport each time.

I had to re-read the Wiki article a few times before seeing that part.

Nevertheless, an out would make it awkward for us to live as a family in an EU country or the UK - unless the UK does a freedom-of-movement deal with the EU.
dont trust the Wiki. better trust the Tinkiwiki
Reply With Quote
  #1030  
Old 01.06.2016, 21:12
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,165
Groaned at 36 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 2,209 Times in 1,124 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like an argument about how dysfunctional the EU is to me.
So the UK wants to regain sovereignty, but the sovereignty excised by the member states of the EU makes it dysfunctional, fantastic, truly fantastic logic :roll eyes:

Well like it or not, it the UK does decide to leave that is what it will have to deal with! And I expect there will be only two options available:
- Membership of the EEA
- WTO trading rules
And nothing else for a few reasons:
- Any other trade will have have to benefit all member states to avoid a veto
- Eastern state politicians would be under strong pressure to reject anything that would not include FMOP because that is what their citizens benefit from

On top of this all member states will want to avoid any treaty changes as that would trigger referenda in Denmark, France and Ireland. Now whatever about the first two, the chances of the Irish people accepting a treaty change that would benefit them less than they had before an exit is not very high.

So the only two options that can be offered without a veto or a referendum are the two above.
__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #1031  
Old 01.06.2016, 22:13
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,593
Groaned at 171 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 8,863 Times in 4,860 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So the UK wants to regain sovereignty, but the sovereignty excised by the member states of the EU makes it dysfunctional, fantastic, truly fantastic logic :roll eyes:

Well like it or not, it the UK does decide to leave that is what it will have to deal with! And I expect there will be only two options available:
- Membership of the EEA
- WTO trading rules
And nothing else for a few reasons:
- Any other trade will have have to benefit all member states to avoid a veto
- Eastern state politicians would be under strong pressure to reject anything that would not include FMOP because that is what their citizens benefit from

On top of this all member states will want to avoid any treaty changes as that would trigger referenda in Denmark, France and Ireland. Now whatever about the first two, the chances of the Irish people accepting a treaty change that would benefit them less than they had before an exit is not very high.

So the only two options that can be offered without a veto or a referendum are the two above.
It is difficult, practically impossible, these days to make a new free trade agreement that does not impact sovereignty

Look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPP);
documents from TPP negotiations reveals that the deal would empower foreign corporations to skirt domestic courts and directly challenge health, environmental and other public interest policies before extra-judicial foreign tribunals.
Incidentally TPP negotiations have taken 7 years so far.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiation is also well advanced.
Reply With Quote
  #1032  
Old 01.06.2016, 22:40
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,989
Groaned at 174 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 10,032 Times in 5,723 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It is difficult, practically impossible, these days to make a new free trade agreement that does not impact sovereignty

Look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPP);
documents from TPP negotiations reveals that the deal would empower foreign corporations to skirt domestic courts and directly challenge health, environmental and other public interest policies before extra-judicial foreign tribunals.
Incidentally TPP negotiations have taken 7 years so far.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiation is also well advanced.
And will probably be dumped by whoever becomes the next US President.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36368759
Reply With Quote
  #1033  
Old 01.06.2016, 22:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Geneva area
Posts: 282
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 279 Times in 125 Posts
hairybadger has earned the respect of manyhairybadger has earned the respect of manyhairybadger has earned the respect of many
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
On top of this all member states will want to avoid any treaty changes as that would trigger referenda in Denmark, France and Ireland. Now whatever about the first two, the chances of the Irish people accepting a treaty change that would benefit them less than they had before an exit is not very high.
I can't see the Irish being affected much by a possible Brexit. The agreements between the UK and Ireland regarding FMOP predate the EU, as do the Common Travel Area, common voting rights etc. Of course - all bets are off when push comes to shove
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank hairybadger for this useful post:
  #1034  
Old 01.06.2016, 23:38
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,574
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,476 Times in 5,732 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It is difficult, practically impossible, these days to make a new free trade agreement that does not impact sovereignty

Look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPP);
documents from TPP negotiations reveals that the deal would empower foreign corporations to skirt domestic courts and directly challenge health, environmental and other public interest policies before extra-judicial foreign tribunals.
Incidentally TPP negotiations have taken 7 years so far.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiation is also well advanced.
TPP is an investor state dispute settlement treaty, not a trade agreement.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #1035  
Old 01.06.2016, 23:45
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,574
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,476 Times in 5,732 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
deal would empower foreign corporations to skirt domestic courts and directly challenge health, environmental and other public interest policies before extra-judicial foreign tribunals
attributes the EU and ISDS treaties share and a key reason I am against both.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #1036  
Old 02.06.2016, 00:51
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 1,150
Groaned at 46 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 2,902 Times in 1,332 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I can't see the Irish being affected much by a possible Brexit. The agreements between the UK and Ireland regarding FMOP predate the EU, as do the Common Travel Area, common voting rights etc. Of course - all bets are off when push comes to shove
Ireland would have the only land border between the UK and the EU.
I've yet to see anyone come up with a reasonable and timely solution as to how this border would be operated.

Quote:
Mr Ahern said: "We'd be the only place that has a land border with Britain - of course others would exploit and expose it. They'd have to check people."
Mr Ahern went on: "From a trade point of view it would be a customs border - it's regressive, negative."
But Mrs Villiers, a Brexit campaigner, told Sky News that no changes to border arrangements would be needed.
http://news.sky.com/story/1680182/ir...scaremongering
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #1037  
Old 02.06.2016, 01:46
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,593
Groaned at 171 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 8,863 Times in 4,860 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
TPP is an investor state dispute settlement treaty, not a trade agreement.
From the BBC "The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is one of the most ambitious free trade agreements ever signed."

Source

The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is a trade agreement among twelve Pacific Rim countries

Source

The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) writes the rules for global trade

Source

The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) is a free trade agreement
between 12 Asia-Pacific countries

Source

Sigh.....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1038  
Old 02.06.2016, 09:32
Pachyderm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 815
Groaned at 49 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 623 Posts
Pachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It's not about a plan, it is about a direction. The choice we have is whether we want to be in a European Federal Superstate or outside of it.

There's no plan or deadline for how the EU federal superstate will come either, it is also just a direction, except with the twist that we would not be the ones in control of it, but instead we will be dragged along with the tide of QMV.

The French and Germans make no secret about ever closer union, yet the remain crowd cling onto the belief that we will remain with the status quo. The future within the EU and the road to a EU superstate is also a huge unknown, it is just that people get used to it as it is introduced gradually.

For me this is a pivotal moment in British history, it will be the UK's chance to leave a bureaucratic, protectionist customs union (which as aspirations of monetary, fiscal and political union) to chart its own way, as it has done successfully for many centuries. It's normal to experience trepidation at change and the unknown, but Britain has faced it in the past and thrived and it will do so again as long as the people are not afraid to give it a try and take this first step to freedom and self-determination.
Step forward and take a bow, the Churchill of the English Forum. Bravo! Where's that ballot paper...?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pachyderm for this useful post:
  #1039  
Old 02.06.2016, 09:45
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,018
Groaned at 342 Times in 278 Posts
Thanked 17,868 Times in 6,825 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I am seeking some clarity on this whole Brexit referendum thing.

If I represented a working couple from somewhere working class, living in a working class type of house, with a working class sized television, a working class car, partial to a few working class pints with working class mates down the working mens club and shopping in working class shops buying working class clothes, I'd want the key question answered:

Would the cost of 8 pints of a lager and all day breakfast in the "Tower of London" pub in some working class resort on the Costas be more expensive if Brexit or Bremain??
__________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #1040  
Old 02.06.2016, 09:53
Cata1yst's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zugish
Posts: 483
Groaned at 16 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 575 Times in 263 Posts
Cata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Ireland would have the only land border between the UK and the EU.

I've yet to see anyone come up with a reasonable and timely solution as to how this border would be operated.

http://news.sky.com/story/1680182/ir...scaremongering
As a border?

Then again it would go against the free travel / movement principle (much older than the EU) between the UK and Ireland. Saying that who cares, we need to police that border better now the guys are finished playing terrorists they're making a killing out of smuggling both ways.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0