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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1201  
Old 13.06.2016, 10:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

You really have swallowed the media bylines on this. Project Fear? = Murdoch media. Are you on his payroll too?

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To describe the scaremongering as coming from the Leave side is quite disgraceful. At least have the integrity to admit that neither side has covered itself in glory. I don't think it's fair for Leave to use the gross £350m figure for the amount we pay per week. The net figure of around £250m is quite enough. And the threat of Turkey joining seems remote.
Turkey in the EU won't happen in Erdogan's lifetime, no matter how much Boris wants it to, and probably for a generation or two after that.

Both sides have showered themselves in lies and misinformation, but I don't expect much better when, essentially, it's a blue on blue war of words. Cameron has raised too many arguments that I disagree with, so I look to almost anyone but him for accurate info. The debate has switched too many people off and left them not knowing what to believe.

I've been debating this at length with a friend and former trade union colleague who has thrown every arguing point under the sun at me. So far, I've managed to prove all of her beliefs and assumptions are innaccurate and just plain wrong. She won't be swayed, same as I won't be.
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  #1202  
Old 13.06.2016, 10:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You really have swallowed the media bylines on this. Project Fear? = Murdoch media. Are you on his payroll too?
So the Prime Minister telling pensioners he could lower their pension on the Andrew Marr show is Murdoch at work then ?
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  #1203  
Old 13.06.2016, 10:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Do you have any link to this? or is this something someone said down the pub?
Many business meetings can & are done with Skype today even through air travel is now incredibly cheap, far cheaper than 40 years ago.
Indeed, many meetings are done remotely these days, but you still need staff deployed to certain locations and many contracts are still formally signed in black ink in the presence of all parties concerned. Conferences are still attended.

My info is from spending the last decade (up to November 2015) working in the Business travel management industry, therefore, classified, particularly as I will probably return to that industry once my German is up to spec. These links may advise further...

http://buyingbusinesstravel.com/feat...et-trends-2015

http://buyingbusinesstravel.com/feat...5810-eu-or-out
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  #1204  
Old 13.06.2016, 13:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If after Brexit the UK decides to keep allowing no-barrier entry to all Irish citizens (from the Republic of), can Ireland allow no-barrier entry to all Northern Irish citizens?
In other words, can the two sides of the island keep pretending there is no border between them?
Or will the EU not allow Ireland to do such a thing?
Ireland is not part of Schengen so no reason the current arrangement can't remain in place in the event of Brexit.
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  #1205  
Old 13.06.2016, 13:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So the Prime Minister telling pensioners he could lower their pension on the Andrew Marr show is Murdoch at work then ?
If you expect me to defend Cameron and his mutterings in any way, shape or form, you're backing the wrong horse.
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  #1206  
Old 13.06.2016, 13:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ireland is not part of Schengen so no reason the current arrangement can't remain in place in the event of Brexit.
Probably the import/export of goods will no longer be duty free so they will need to have Customs controls.
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  #1207  
Old 13.06.2016, 13:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

£ is now CHF 1.36
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  #1208  
Old 13.06.2016, 14:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Probably the import/export of goods will no longer be duty free so they will need to have Customs controls.
I don't think it will make a difference. There's always been smuggling between the two. Unless they build a wall - which they won't. Remember the old cow trick. They'd cross UK cows over the border - claim EU subsidy - then walk them back and repeat a month later.

Anyway, despite what they say, the word in the inner circle in Brussels is they will agree a trade deal quickly as it's in their interest despite the rhetoric, as of course they are desperate for the UK not to leave the EU.
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  #1209  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Anyway, despite what they say, the word in the inner circle in Brussels is they will agree a trade deal quickly as it's in their interest despite the rhetoric, as of course they are desperate for the UK not to leave the EU.
Thank you for providing us the inner circle gossip of Brussels. Say hi to Merkel for me when you see her again.

Whatever...
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  #1210  
Old 13.06.2016, 15:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ireland is not part of Schengen so no reason the current arrangement can't remain in place in the event of Brexit.
Schengen is about whether there will be passport controls at the actual moment when you cross the border.

Freedom of movement for workers is another beast. It is about whether you will need to apply for a Visa in order to live in another country.
Brexiters want out because they want EU citizens to have to apply for a visa and be accepted based on their actual skills.
Today the situation in Ireland is calm because anybody from any side of the border can move and work anywhere in the island.
I am wondering, if the UK makes EU citizens to go throw emigration controls, won't the EU force the Republic of Ireland to make all Northern Irish go through emigration control too?

Similarly, how about goods? Today the UK is in the Customs Union, but it won't be after Brexit. So there will be levies on goods transferred across the border.

Your answer about Schengen is really not answering the question.
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  #1211  
Old 13.06.2016, 19:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Northern Ireland Secretary of State Theresa Villiers has her say:

“Claims of Border restrictions are “far-fetched”, since Irish citizens would continue to enjoy rights that would not be shared with other EU citizens. The Common Travel Area has existed since the creation of the Irish State in the 1920s and it will continue after a vote to leave the EU.”

Meanwhile, in Ireland, E. Kenny struggles with European rules and their lack of flexibility, transparency and consistency. Ha! Business as usual then..
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  #1212  
Old 13.06.2016, 19:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in


please gamble responsibly...



(with apologies and thanks to Private Eye..)
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  #1213  
Old 13.06.2016, 19:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Northern Ireland Secretary of State Theresa Villiers has her say:
Her rumblings were blown out of the water a few weeks ago. This is from yesterday...

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Ireland has been putting work in behind the scenes for over two years, preparing for either outcome in the referendum. One senior government source said it would irresponsible not to.
Why so concerned?
The government’s position is it wants our nearest neighbours to stay. Officials are pretty worried about the ramifications if the UK parts company with the EU.
Ireland’s campaign has intensified with the announcement that Taoiseach Enda Kenny is to meet UK Prime Minister David Cameron in Manchester in the coming week.
http://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-uk-i...09506-Jun2016/
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  #1214  
Old 13.06.2016, 19:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Northern Ireland Secretary of State Theresa Villiers.....
The NI Secretary has not got the foggiest idea what she is talking about! Go read Article 50 of the treaty and follow that with Protocol 20 and note that Protocol 20 expires with the invocation of Article 50. The NI border will be come the UK's only land border with the EU and as such will have to be controlled like any other EU border.
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  #1215  
Old 13.06.2016, 20:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am wondering, if the UK makes EU citizens to go throw emigration controls, won't the EU force the Republic of Ireland to make all Northern Irish go through emigration control too?
That is where things get messy because almost all NI citizens are entitled to claim Irish citizenship as well.... Furthermore, if it was felt there was sufficient support for it the Good Friday agreement might be invoked and you could have a referendum on NI's status within the UK!

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Similarly, how about goods? Today the UK is in the Customs Union, but it won't be after Brexit. So there will be levies on goods transferred across the border.
Very true, the customs union would certainly be a big issue. It should not be forgotten that Ireland is the UK's fifth biggest export market! From the UK government website:

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Ireland is the UK’s fifth largest export market and imports more from the UK than any other country. The UK accounts for 30% of imports into Ireland. In 2014, exports of goods and services from the UK to Ireland totalled £27.86 billion.
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  #1216  
Old 13.06.2016, 20:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The NI Secretary has not got the foggiest idea what she is talking about! Go read Article 50 of the treaty and follow that with Protocol 20 and note that Protocol 20 expires with the invocation of Article 50. The NI border will be come the UK's only land border with the EU and as such will have to be controlled like any other EU border.
Not everyone agrees. "First Minister Arlene Foster dismissed warnings from Dublin that border and customs checks with the Republic were inevitable should Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK leave the EU. Reference to close Sweden-Norway ties despite EU border dividing them and officials say ties have remained strong because of unique cross-border agreements."

Scaremongering, yet again. I see Kenny is visiting UK to put pressure on all the UK Irish to support the remain campaign.
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  #1217  
Old 13.06.2016, 23:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not everyone agrees. "First Minister Arlene Foster dismissed warnings from Dublin that border and customs checks with the Republic were inevitable should Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK leave the EU. Reference to close Sweden-Norway ties despite EU border dividing them and officials say ties have remained strong because of unique cross-border agreements."

Scaremongering, yet again. I see Kenny is visiting UK to put pressure on all the UK Irish to support the remain campaign.
Norway is in the single market. The UK probably won't be. The Republic might not have a choice in the matter.
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  #1218  
Old 13.06.2016, 23:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Am I understanding the gist of the last few posts, that Brexit might lead to the departure of Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom?

Pass me that ballot paper!!!
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  #1219  
Old 13.06.2016, 23:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The NI Secretary has not got the foggiest idea what she is talking about! Go read Article 50 of the treaty and follow that with Protocol 20 and note that Protocol 20 expires with the invocation of Article 50. The NI border will be come the UK's only land border with the EU and as such will have to be controlled like any other EU border.
I just read P20 and this was my impression:

- P20 is the exemption granted to UK and IE regarding A26 TFEU (internal borders) on the removal of internal borders to allow for the creation of a single market
- So after the UK leaves, P20 is ostensibly redundant as there is no internal border to exempt
- However, in a quirk of implementation, P20 is not phrased as an exemption from A26, but rather an entitlement of the UK and IE to control their borders
- Now such an exemption for the UK post-brexit is irrelevant since it would no longer bound to EU rules anyway
- However, since IE is not leaving the EU, the protocol would still apply to IE. Importantly, this means that under Article 2 of the protocol, UK and IE could continue to maintain the existing arrangements between them

Conclusion: no change.
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  #1220  
Old 14.06.2016, 00:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not everyone agrees. "First Minister Arlene Foster dismissed warnings from Dublin that border and customs checks with the Republic were inevitable should Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK leave the EU. Reference to close Sweden-Norway ties despite EU border dividing them and officials say ties have remained strong because of unique cross-border agreements."

Scaremongering, yet again. I see Kenny is visiting UK to put pressure on all the UK Irish to support the remain campaign.
"Reference to close Sweden-Norway ties despite EU border dividing them"
Norway is in the EEA.
Sweden is in the EU.

Brexit is about UK leaving the EU.

UK is not in the EEA.

So how are "close Sweden-Norway ties" relevant? Or do you think UK will join EEA?
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