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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1301  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Both sides are lying so hysterically now no one believes anything any more. ....
The whole thing though has been the complete reverse of the scottish referendum. in that campaign the scottish voters were engaged and energised, they came into politics. here the bitter feeling left in the mouth is that all politicians are lying scumbags who will say and do anything to get you to side with them. the British public are the losers whatever the outcome.
First thing you have written on this that I agree with! This has been the absolute political worst campaign (from both sides) I have ever seen.
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  #1302  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A flotilla of fishing boats with Nigel Farage on board has entered London on the Thames in support of the Brexit cause.

A gathering of Remain boats with non other than Bob Geldof on board are circling and attempting to disrupt.

YOU COULDN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP! WTF IS GOING ON?!

I think you know you have lost the argument when you resort to gesticulating the 'V' sign and the w@nker sign to your opponents. That was utterly pathetic.
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  #1303  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you know you have lost the argument when you resort to gesticulating the 'V' sign and the w@nker sign to your opponents. That was utterly pathetic.
So both sides lose?
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  #1304  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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First thing you have written on this that I agree with! This has been the absolute political worst campaign (from both sides) I have ever seen.
and I will be amazed - absolutely staggered - if the current line from both sides of "we'll be friends after and carry on working together" is even remotely true.

I think (perhaps this is another poll!):

Vote to Leave: Cameron gone in 2 months, osborne gone in next reshuffle after that when boris sacks him.

Vote to Stay: Cameron challenged by Boris within 6 months, possibly a third candidate winning as Bors now tainted due to Leave. Osborne remains but will never now be PM, reputation in tatters after economic "predictions".
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  #1305  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

This is an excellent article in the right wing Spectator mag:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/england-gone-mad/
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  #1306  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think you know you have lost the argument when you resort to gesticulating the 'V' sign and the w@nker sign to your opponents. That was utterly pathetic.
Charges £50k plus to speak about poverty. Two family members died on the skag. Off shore properties not filled with migrants. Supporting an organisation that keeps Africa poor. Oh, and his music was shit.
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  #1307  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a matter of interest can you name one country or group of countries that have expressed interest in negotiating a trade agreement with the UK after Brexit?

So far all I have seen is public statements stating exactly the opposite!

This talk of UK entering a new world of multiple free trade agreements is at best wishful thinking, at worst, leaping into disaster.
Would be better than the EU who in all its years of existence have almost no significant trade deals except perhaps Mexico (2000) and South Korea (2015).

So, yes, I think the UK could do rather better than 1 significant trade deal every 30 years or so.
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  #1308  
Old 16.06.2016, 12:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oh, and his music was shit.
But he did produce my Monday morning anthem
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  #1309  
Old 16.06.2016, 12:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Interestingly, some see the EU using Brexit as a way to push forward for more EU integration including more fiscal integration and risk-sharing:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/09668b3e-2...#axzz4BRgayKXb

Brexit could lead to a United States of Europe becoming a reality earlier than expected.
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  #1310  
Old 16.06.2016, 12:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Geldof is Irish. WTF would anyone take him seriously on this? WTF is he sticking his beak into it?
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  #1311  
Old 16.06.2016, 12:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Geldof is Irish. WTF would anyone take him seriously on this? WTF is he sticking his beak into it?
He's an Irish citizen resident in the United Kingdom. He has a right to vote in the referendum and a right to speak about it.
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  #1312  
Old 16.06.2016, 13:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I Just love British Entertainment!
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  #1313  
Old 16.06.2016, 13:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Would be better than the EU who in all its years of existence have almost no significant trade deals except perhaps Mexico (2000) and South Korea (2015).

So, yes, I think the UK could do rather better than 1 significant trade deal every 30 years or so.


Well you missed out a significant one with Switzerland!!

Here is a list of over 40 EU signed trade deals plus many others in negotiation.

This includes the Euro-Mediterranean AA agreement with 10 countries as a result EU exports almost 200 billion euro per year to these!

Then there is Chile worth ca. 12 billion exports per year and South Africa worth 30 billion per year.

Are you resorting to Leave tactics of stretching the truth?

Disappointed in you
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  #1314  
Old 16.06.2016, 13:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well you missed out a significant one with Switzerland!!

Here is a list of over 40 EU signed trade deals plus many others in negotiation.

This includes the Euro-Mediterranean AA agreement with 10 countries as a result EU exports almost 200 billion euro per year to these!

Then there is Chile worth ca. 12 billion exports per year and South Africa worth 30 billion per year.

Are you resorting to Leave tactics of stretching the truth?

Disappointed in you
So no trade deal with China, Japan or USA.
It would look as a trade deal has zero benefit, Japan & China seem to get a load of goods in the shops.
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  #1315  
Old 16.06.2016, 13:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So no trade deal with China, Japan or USA.
It would look as a trade deal has zero benefit, Japan & China seem to get a load of goods in the shops.


But the idea of a trade deal is to get our goods into their shops

Japan, USA, China agreements in negotiation for a long time; no doubt after Brexit then UK will be able to negotiate such agreements much more quickly!
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  #1316  
Old 16.06.2016, 13:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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But the idea of a trade deal is to get our goods into their shops

Japan, USA, China agreements in negotiation for a long time; no doubt after Brexit then UK will be able to negotiate such agreements much more quickly!
Actually Germany (understandably) stalled the Canada deal due to ISDS clause. The China deal will go nowhere as most of Europe (not the UK for once) refuse to recognise China as market economy status (IMO, this is tilting at windmills).
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  #1317  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well you missed out a significant one with Switzerland!!

Here is a list of over 40 EU signed trade deals plus many others in negotiation.

This includes the Euro-Mediterranean AA agreement with 10 countries as a result EU exports almost 200 billion euro per year to these!

Then there is Chile worth ca. 12 billion exports per year and South Africa worth 30 billion per year.

Are you resorting to Leave tactics of stretching the truth?

Disappointed in you
You're right, I missed Chile and South Africa, so 1 every 15 years.

Not that I believe the UK would not have had better trade agreements earlier with commonwealth and former commonwealth countries such as South Africa, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

I've excluded the AA countries as it isn't clear to me that these include any element of free trade (except possibly beyond granting MFN status), but am happy to be corrected if anyone has delved into these.

But my overall point is that I don't believe it is right to say that the UK is better of trade-wise with the EU negotiating free trade deals. I think the UK would be much better off if it had the freedom to negotiate FTA on its own due to:

- Historical ties with commonwealth
- Cultural links with English speaking countries such as US, Cananda, NZ, Australia (basically 5 Eyes countries where we already have much closer cooperation in intelligence matters than the EU will ever have)
- No need to be paralyzed by internal EU politics and horse-trading - the best compromise deal for EU is not necessarily the best for the UK - and given the differences in the economy, I would imagine it is unlikely to be the best for the UK.
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  #1318  
Old 16.06.2016, 18:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Labour MP Jo Cox who is part of the remain campaign has been shot 3 times by some right wing lunatic!

Tragic news for the MP and her family...

This will no doubt play a role in changing perceptions and have an impact o the outcome of the vote.
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  #1319  
Old 16.06.2016, 21:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Labour MP Jo Cox who is part of the remain campaign has been shot 3 times by some right wing lunatic!

Tragic news for the MP and her family...

This will no doubt play a role in changing perceptions and have an impact o the outcome of the vote.
Sadly, she died of her injuries. Both sides have suspended campaigning
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  #1320  
Old 17.06.2016, 07:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Not saying Brexiters are easily led by big buisness interests and right wing media but..... http://gu.com/p/4ydd3?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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