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  #41  
Old 07.03.2016, 14:15
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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It is ridiculous that individual countries close their borders it will put all the burden on countries like Greece and Italy. We should close the external EU borders in a joint effort.
Between them Greece and Italy have over 20,000 km of coast line. Good luck in trying to close that.
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  #42  
Old 07.03.2016, 14:19
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Between them Greece and Italy have over 20,000 km of coast line. Good luck in trying to close that.
Why not give them a stamp in their passport if they come in through an approved crossing. If they decide to avoid the approved crossings and just land on some random beach they have essentially entered the country illegally and thus forfeit their asylum claim.
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  #43  
Old 07.03.2016, 14:34
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Not at all!

'Refugee' is a status. It isn't who these people are. They're the same as you and me. Most have families, careers, etc...but have lost their homes to war. Many have passports. I've seen photos in the Greek media of people landing on beaches waving their passports in the air.

If I want to get into Turkey I need a visa, and explain what I am doing there. I cannot phantom a Syrian get to the border of Turkey saying: "please let me in, but don't worry, I will hop on a boat arranged by human traffickers as soon as I can because I have no interest staying in your country".


In essence, Turkey is supporting human trafficking by letting them through and getting paid by the EU on top of that.

Last edited by acf69; 07.03.2016 at 14:35. Reason: clarity
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  #44  
Old 07.03.2016, 14:43
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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it will not happen.


And what is even better, this is exactly what Putin wants, revenge on Europe by bombing the sh^5t out of Syria so that people walk to Europe, dividing the continent. And the refusal of the EU to playing hardball and tackling the source of the issue will be its undoing.


It is ridiculous that individual countries close their borders it will put all the burden on countries like Greece and Italy. We should close the external EU borders in a joint effort.


Why am I saying "we", it is good to live in Switzerland!


One last thing, this is a problem that cannot be solved by taking peoples money (i.e. taxes from EU citizens to bail out Greece). This means our "leaders" actually have to manage something which we all know they are incapable of doing.


Enjoy the fireworks...
I don´t think you can hang that one on Darth Putin, it´s more a sigh of relief from the countries the "refugees" hail from, think about it, a chance to get rid of all the surplus and unwanted young males without actually having to kill them off in a war or two, and if by a miracle they actually make some money to send home. Yehh! Win, win.
However if you think that the refugee crisis is bad now, just wait until they have settled in a bit and had a chance to make lots and lots of babies. Soon the numbers will start to explode like in the popcorn machine at the cinema. If one was a cynic, one could even say that the up and coming "baby bomb" will used as a weapon against us.
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  #45  
Old 07.03.2016, 14:47
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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In essence, Turkey is supporting human trafficking by letting them through and getting paid by the EU on top of that.
Precisely, to the tune of EUR 3.4 billion.

Today's development is the EU are debating whether to offer Turkey EUR 3.3 billion in aid...

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Turkey is also attending the summit, which is tackling Europe's worst refugee crisis since World War Two.
The EU will press Turkey to take back migrants in return for $3.3bn in aid.
Last year, more than a million people entered the EU illegally by boat, mainly going from Turkey to Greece.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35741494

So that would make a total of EUR 6.7 billion in aid to a country with a more than questionable government, zero history of being an effective ally in this crisis, yet Greece and Italy get bugger all assistance ???

I wouldn't give Erdogan the steam of my poop!
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  #46  
Old 07.03.2016, 17:41
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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None of which give them the right to enter Greece - they're non-EU nationals. So if they were like us they'd have jobs to go to. They're asylum seekers who should be registering as such in Turkey.
Turkey isn't part of the Dublin Accord. Whether they register in Turkey or not has no bearing on their application within EU.
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  #47  
Old 08.03.2016, 00:14
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Precisely, to the tune of EUR 3.4 billion.

Today's development is the EU are debating whether to offer Turkey EUR 3.3 billion in aid...


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35741494

So that would make a total of EUR 6.7 billion in aid to a country with a more than questionable government, zero history of being an effective ally in this crisis, yet Greece and Italy get bugger all assistance ???

I wouldn't give Erdogan the steam of my poop!
Turkey is also demanding Schengen visas for all Turkish citizens by mid year; with no vetting.

So then Erdogan give his ISIS mates Turkish passports and here they come

Some newspapers are claiming Orban, the Hungarian leader, has vetoed the whole deal - rumoured that Cyprus will also veto

Maybe this situation really will destroy the EU
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  #48  
Old 08.03.2016, 00:20
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Why not give them a stamp in their passport if they come in through an approved crossing. If they decide to avoid the approved crossings and just land on some random beach they have essentially entered the country illegally and thus forfeit their asylum claim.
"a stamp in their passport " another business opportunity for the smugglers selling stamps .

Assuming the refugees who do not have the correct stamps in their passports do not simply burn their passports. "never had a passport guv, there was nothing to be stamped, honest".
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  #49  
Old 08.03.2016, 02:13
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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So then Erdogan give his ISIS mates Turkish passports and here they come

Some newspapers are claiming Orban, the Hungarian leader, has vetoed the whole deal - rumoured that Cyprus will also veto

Maybe this situation really will destroy the EU
And he wants accelerated admission to the EU. With his human right record? With another shining example of how he views the freedom of the press this weekend? This is blackmail and should be treated as such. The EU needs to learn that you can't always just throw money at a problem to make it go away.

Til Erdogan is in his grave, Turkey should not be admitted into the EU under any circumstances.

Meanwhile, yesterday in Athens, the Greek people were collecting goods in Syntagma Square for the refugees.

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10,000 Greeks donated a mountain of goods for refugees, while rich EU countries seal their borders.
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...their-borders/

Then you read this news from today...

Quote:
Euro zone finance ministers should agree on Monday to send representatives of Greece's lenders to Athens to finish a review of Greek reforms, paving the way for new loans and debt relief talks, Economic Commissioner Pierre Moscovici said on Monday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/euroz...-idUSB5N14401R

So, we have the EU wafting billions under the nose of a lunatic in an effort to make a problem go away (has shades of the Iran-Iraq war and certain folk buddying up with Saddam).

Then we have the people of a debt-ridden EU nation doing all they can to help the refugees, largely because they remember the lessons of their parents and grandparents, and because of a little thing called 'Filoxenia'.

And finally we have the EU finance ministers flying out to Athens today and threatening to pull the rug out from them even further.


Where the hell is the logic in this?


And let's remember that Greece didn't ask, beg or blackmail their way into the EU. They were invited. The biggest mistake Greece made was accepting the invitation.
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  #50  
Old 08.03.2016, 08:53
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Turkey is also demanding Schengen visas for all Turkish citizens by mid year; with no vetting.

So then Erdogan give his ISIS mates Turkish passports and here they come

Some newspapers are claiming Orban, the Hungarian leader, has vetoed the whole deal - rumoured that Cyprus will also veto

Maybe this situation really will destroy the EU
No rumour as far as Orban is concerned, though this says only vetoed the resettlement part.

"Earlier a spokesman for Hungarian PM Viktor Orban - who has taken a strongly anti-immigrant stance - said he had vetoed the plan to resettle refugees in Europe."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35749837

They do finally have seen sense and picked up on what others have been saying for months - anyone entering illegally effectively loses the chance to claim asylum (goes to the back of the queue). However, extending Schengen right of travel to a dictator in the process of turning his country into a one party state, surpressing freedom of speech, etc, is totally against EU values and they really shouldn't be agreeing to this. More aid possibly - though I think it would be better spent in Greece/Italy dealing with the situation there - but not giving in to Edrogan's demands. Especially as he hasn't really taken any action to curb the illegal crossings anyway.
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  #51  
Old 08.03.2016, 09:51
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

So it looks like the EU has agreed a "one in one out" policy with Turkey. Great in theory, very likely unworkable in practice.

In exchange Turkey will get a load of cash, visa-free travel to the EU and accelerated EU membership.

No mention of the fact that they're shelling the hell out of the Kurds (which creates more refugees), closing down newspapers that dare speak out against the president, or indeed Erdogan's intent on becoming the next Islamic dictator.

Shameful from the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...al-with-turkey
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  #52  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:04
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

If this is such a great deal for the EU why is the Turkish PM the only one laughing?

And how does the EU justify returning refugees to a country that has a civil war under way with the Kurds in the South-East?
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  #53  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:10
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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However, extending Schengen right of travel to a dictator in the process of turning his country into a one party state, surpressing freedom of speech, etc, is totally against EU values and they really shouldn't be agreeing to this.
To me this shows the real, cynical stance of EU leaders towards their own people. Or, maybe no one of them thinks Shengen survives until then anyway :-)
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  #54  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:32
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

According to Erdogan, Turkey has already spent 10 billion and has not recieved the first 3 billion.

He expects that PM returns with 3 billion

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0W91F0
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  #55  
Old 08.03.2016, 12:05
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

If this pans out, the refugees are settled in Turkey and Turkey is admitted into the EU. So, the refugees end up in the Schengen area anyway!

Cut out the middleman and deal with the issue in Greece and Italy instead of doing a deal with the devil.
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  #56  
Old 08.03.2016, 12:05
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

The best thing about this deal that *won't* stop migrants arriving in Europe, is that the EU has now flung open its doors to 80 million Turks too.
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  #57  
Old 08.03.2016, 14:33
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

Totally agree with you.

I have absolutely nothing against Turkish people. We stayed at a hotel in Sultanahmet last year and became friendly with the owner and staff. The talk turned to politics based upon a photo in the hotel lobby. We were kindly advised that politics isn't a subject to be talked about publically in Turkey because there's always someone listening in.

There will come a time when Turkey will be welcomed into the EU, but it won't be soon and it can't be steam rollered.
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  #58  
Old 08.03.2016, 14:47
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Totally agree with you.

I have absolutely nothing against Turkish people. We stayed at a hotel in Sultanahmet last year and became friendly with the owner and staff. The talk turned to politics based upon a photo in the hotel lobby. We were kindly advised that politics isn't a subject to be talked about publically in Turkey because there's always someone listening in.

There will come a time when Turkey will be welcomed into the EU, but it won't be soon and it can't be steam rollered.
Yup, the liberal, progressive Turks of Istanbul are welcome to come. The toothless peasants of deepest Anatolia however can stay where they are with their Islamic conservatism and 7th century tribal conflicts.
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  #59  
Old 08.03.2016, 15:37
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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The best thing about this deal that *won't* stop migrants arriving in Europe, is that the EU has now flung open its doors to 80 million Turks too.
"80 million Turks" Maybe more. Turkey gives a Turkish entry visa to anybody who buys a plane ticket.
Then they just buy a Turkish passport, get their Schengen visa and - Hello!
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  #60  
Old 08.03.2016, 17:41
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Re: EU gives Greece deadline on borders

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Yup, the liberal, progressive Turks of Istanbul are welcome to come. The toothless peasants of deepest Anatolia however can stay where they are with their Islamic conservatism and 7th century tribal conflicts.
My experience with Istanbul (although I met plenty of friendly Turks there) was tarnished by the equal number of con-artist ripoff salesman lying through their teeth, trying to extract as many lira from tourists as possible. Being charged double because we are white foreigners. Intentionally wasting our time by offering us tea and having us wait 'just a few more minutes' for the head salesman to show up, so he could lie about his wares and quote us high prices. They make you invest your time, (knowing that you have limited vacation time there), to force a sale at an outrageous price.

IMO the average Istanbul turk doesn't jibe with what we think of as European values.

I've been told that people are much more genuine in the rest of the country, including Anatolia...

Some of my favorite people in my town here in CH are Turks.
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