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  #121  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:30
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I struggle to see how marching around London idolising Stalin is any more acceptable than marching with jackboots, brown shirts and a swastika.
Have you ever been to a may day rally? Any idea what the heck you are talking about? Thousands of people in all European countries do not idolize Stalin but celebrate workers rights on that day. For the record: It's actually an American invention...


The biggest group behind it are the trade unions. Yes, if you have a large demonstration do you usually end up getting a couple of idiots among them. In London they apparently claim to be communists, in Zurich they simply have a fight with riot police. A few black sheep won't change the idea: Yes, we used to have strong worker movements and I for one am happy we had them... cause my great grandfather had to work 12-14 hour days and I don't have to thanks to them...


I absolutely expect any social democratic leader to show up to those demonstrations, it's part of the folklore. If one, like say Hollande, doesn't dare to leave the Elysee palace... well, you know at that very moment where he cannot face his electorate anymore that he most probably screwed up. I don't think Blair went there often either... and he knew why.
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  #122  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:31
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I struggle to see how marching around London idolising Stalin is any more acceptable than marching with jackboots, brown shirts and a swastika.
In a "who is the most psychotic feck-face" competition - Hitler doesn't even get close - although Hitler was a racist, picking on Jews, Slavs and Romas.

Where as Stalin was far less of the racist - picking on anyone and everyone with little regard for race or colour. He was your equal opportunity genocidal mad-man.



But its alright - his speeches are easier to edit down to something which sound noble.
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  #123  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:34
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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cause my great grandfather had to work 12-14 hour days and I don't have to thanks to them...
Your grandfather worked M&A in Corporate Finance?????
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  #124  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:42
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

Here is what Gerald Kaufman, born and bred an orthodox Jew- now Father of the House of Commons, said in the HofC:


(after explaining that his grandmother was shot in bed by the nazis):

'my grand-mother didn't die to provide cover for Israeli soliders to murder Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynicalla exploit the guilt among Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust- as justification over the murder of Palestinians.
The implications are that Jewish lives are precious but the lives of (Muslim) Palestinians do not count.'
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  #125  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:50
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Here is what Gerald Kaufman, born and bred an orthodox Jew- now Father of the House of Commons, said in the HofC:


(after explaining that his grandmother was shot in bed by the nazis):

'my grand-mother didn't die to provide cover for Israeli soliders to murder Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynicalla exploit the guilt among Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust- as justification over the murder of Palestinians.
The implications are that Jewish lives are precious but the lives of (Muslim) Palestinians do not count.'
And this has what to do with Jeremy Corbyn's positions on anti-semitism? And his so-called friends (if not bedfellows)?
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  #126  
Old 03.05.2016, 16:58
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Have you ever been to a may day rally? Any idea what the heck you are talking about? Thousands of people in all European countries do not idolize Stalin but celebrate workers rights on that day. For the record: It's actually an American invention...


The biggest group behind it are the trade unions. Yes, if you have a large demonstration do you usually end up getting a couple of idiots among them. In London they apparently claim to be communists, in Zurich they simply have a fight with riot police. A few black sheep won't change the idea: Yes, we used to have strong worker movements and I for one am happy we had them... cause my great grandfather had to work 12-14 hour days and I don't have to thanks to them...


I absolutely expect any social democratic leader to show up to those demonstrations, it's part of the folklore. If one, like say Hollande, doesn't dare to leave the Elysee palace... well, you know at that very moment where he cannot face his electorate anymore that he most probably screwed up. I don't think Blair went there often either... and he knew why.
I wouldn't dream of going to a May Day rally, imagine having do endure the riffraff that attend those things?! Ugh.

May Day marches may have started with good intentions, but it was the communists that took it to a whole new level:





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  #127  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:02
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Here is what Gerald Kaufman, born and bred an orthodox Jew- now Father of the House of Commons, said in the HofC:


(after explaining that his grandmother was shot in bed by the nazis):

'my grand-mother didn't die to provide cover for Israeli soliders to murder Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynicalla exploit the guilt among Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust- as justification over the murder of Palestinians.
The implications are that Jewish lives are precious but the lives of (Muslim) Palestinians do not count.'
Here's another quote from Mr Kaufman:

“It’s Jewish money, Jewish donations to the Conservative party – as in the general election in May – support from the Jewish Chronicle, all of those things, bias the Conservatives.”

What a lovely chap!
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  #128  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:10
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Here's another quote from Mr Kaufman:

“It’s Jewish money, Jewish donations to the Conservative party – as in the general election in May – support from the Jewish Chronicle, all of those things, bias the Conservatives.”

What a lovely chap!
Funny how John Mann hasn't ambushed Kaufman yet
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  #129  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:23
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I wouldn't dream of going to a May Day rally, imagine having do endure the riffraff that attend those things?! Ugh.

May Day marches may have started with good intentions, but it was the communists that took it to a whole new level:
Ah, you'd be surprised at the quality of the champaigne they sip these days, I do say old chap. All in the name of workers' rights and all that. The plight of the working class is so spiffing fascinating I could contemplate it all day. It makes me proud to be a socialist, old chap wot?
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  #130  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:25
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Ah, you'd be surprised at the quality of the champaigne they sip these days, I do say old chap. All in the name of workers' rights and all that. The plight of the working class is so spiffing fascinating I could contemplate it all day. It makes me proud to be a socialist.
That's Blair's mob, now agitating on the back benches.
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  #131  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:31
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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Your grandfather worked M&A in Corporate Finance fudging the books?????
Fixed..
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  #132  
Old 03.05.2016, 17:37
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

And from Norman Finkelstein:

Last week, Ken Livingstone took to the airwaves to defend Naz Shah, but what he said wound up getting him suspended from the Labour party. His most incendiary remark contended that Hitler at one point supported Zionism. This was condemned as antisemitic, and Labour MP John Mann accused Livingstone of being a ‘Nazi apologist’. What do you make of these accusations?

Livingstone maybe wasn’t precise enough, and lacked nuance. But he does know something about that dark chapter in history. It has been speculated that Hitler’s thinking on how to solve the ‘Jewish Question’ (as it was called back then) evolved, as circumstances changed and new possibilities opened up. Hitler wasn’t wholly hostile to the Zionist project at the outset. That’s why so many German Jews managed to survive after Hitler came to power by emigrating to Palestine. But, then, Hitler came to fear that a Jewish state might strengthen the hand of ‘international Jewry’, so he suspended contact with the Zionists. Later, Hitler perhaps contemplated a ‘territorial solution’ for the Jews. The Nazis considered many ‘resettlement’ schemes – the Jews wouldn’t have physically survived most of them in the long run – before they embarked on an outright exterminatory process. Livingstone is more or less accurate about this – or, as accurate as might be expected from a politician speaking off the cuff.

He’s also accurate that a degree of ideological affinity existed between the Nazis and Zionists. On one critical question, which raged in the U.K. during the period when the Balfour Declaration (1917) was being cobbled together, antisemites and Zionists agreed: could a Jew be an Englishman? Ironically, in light of the current hysteria in the UK, the most vociferous and vehement opponents of the Balfour Declaration were not the Arabs, about whom almost nobody gave a darn, but the upper reaches of British Jewry.

Link here: http://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jami...emitism-scanda

Perhaps read up on the Havaara Agreement too.

Last edited by Odile; 03.05.2016 at 18:22.
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  #133  
Old 03.05.2016, 19:56
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I'd put money on most of those kids growing up to become insurance salesmen and investment bankers.
Isn't that essentially the same as Socialism?

Other people's money and all that?
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  #134  
Old 03.05.2016, 20:09
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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And from Norman Finkelstein:

Last week, Ken Livingstone took to the airwaves to defend Naz Shah, but what he said wound up getting him suspended from the Labour party. His most incendiary remark contended that Hitler at one point supported Zionism. This was condemned as antisemitic, and Labour MP John Mann accused Livingstone of being a ‘Nazi apologist’. What do you make of these accusations?

Livingstone maybe wasn’t precise enough, and lacked nuance. But he does know something about that dark chapter in history. It has been speculated that Hitler’s thinking on how to solve the ‘Jewish Question’ (as it was called back then) evolved, as circumstances changed and new possibilities opened up. Hitler wasn’t wholly hostile to the Zionist project at the outset. That’s why so many German Jews managed to survive after Hitler came to power by emigrating to Palestine. But, then, Hitler came to fear that a Jewish state might strengthen the hand of ‘international Jewry’, so he suspended contact with the Zionists. Later, Hitler perhaps contemplated a ‘territorial solution’ for the Jews. The Nazis considered many ‘resettlement’ schemes – the Jews wouldn’t have physically survived most of them in the long run – before they embarked on an outright exterminatory process. Livingstone is more or less accurate about this – or, as accurate as might be expected from a politician speaking off the cuff.

He’s also accurate that a degree of ideological affinity existed between the Nazis and Zionists. On one critical question, which raged in the U.K. during the period when the Balfour Declaration (1917) was being cobbled together, antisemites and Zionists agreed: could a Jew be an Englishman? Ironically, in light of the current hysteria in the UK, the most vociferous and vehement opponents of the Balfour Declaration were not the Arabs, about whom almost nobody gave a darn, but the upper reaches of British Jewry.

Link here: http://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jami...emitism-scanda

Perhaps read up on the Havaara Agreement too.
OK, I'll bite. This is TOTAL RUBBISH as a way of justifying Ken Livingstone's remarks, and comes from YET ANOTHER highly controversial guy who just happens to be Jewish. Seriously, if you want to prove someone isn't an anti-semite, don't invoke Hitler, and say "he went mad after 1932". Just read Mein Kampf, it's all there. Conflating Zionism with Nazism is just another way of justifying the Islamist agenda. Don't go down this path, there be dragons that way.
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  #135  
Old 03.05.2016, 21:13
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

I don't get the impression from Ken's grasp of historical events that he has read many history books - at least not the ones based on fact. However, a letter in one of yesterday's papers pointed out that in the spirit of Ken's attitude as to what constitutes historical truth, Hitler also described himself as a socialist.

Last edited by chrissie7; 03.05.2016 at 21:15. Reason: missing word
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  #136  
Old 03.05.2016, 21:13
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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...'my grand-mother didn't die to provide cover for Israeli soliders to murder Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynicalla exploit the guilt among Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust- as justification over the murder of Palestinians.
I disagree with Kaufmann. I really don't see much evidence of exploitation of the holocaust guilt by Israelis or Jews nowadays. Perhaps it was true when he was a lad or even middle aged, but certainly not now - for most of us the holocaust is something that happened in history (albeit important to remember).
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  #137  
Old 03.05.2016, 21:38
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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I don't get the impression from Ken's grasp of historical events that he has read many history books - at least not the ones based on fact. However, a letter in one of yesterday's papers pointed out that in the spirit of Ken's attitude as to what constitutes historical truth, Hitler also described himself as a socialist.
He had to, he was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party
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  #138  
Old 03.05.2016, 21:48
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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He had to, he was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party
What's in a name eh?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea
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  #139  
Old 03.05.2016, 22:07
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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What's in a name eh?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Well Kim is always voted in and he does not even manage to get 101% of the vote.

p.s. Did you reply to his card?
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  #140  
Old 03.05.2016, 22:14
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah

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What's in a name eh?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea
I think the card's titling is wrong, that's Kim Il Sung, his grandfather. So the kid must be Kim Jong Il... Imagine getting that guy instead of Santa at Christmas
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