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  #141  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:51
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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"Pushed to murder...by the level of political debate..."

What else do you suppose he's trying to say?
Maybe I'm confused here. In that passage you just quoted, it sounds to me like James O'Brien said whatever he wanted to say -- is that what you mean by freedom of speech? If so, I guess he has it.
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  #142  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:53
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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"Pushed to murder...by the level of political debate..."

What else do you suppose he's trying to say?
I know exactly what he was saying. He said that people could conceivably be pushed to murder by ceaseless fear mongering. Do you debate that? I didn't hear him suggest legislating against anyone.
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  #143  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:54
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Well its up to the courts to decide where free speech ends and incitement to racial or religious hatred begins.
Indeed, and until now there's been no case to answer.
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  #144  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:54
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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In the grand scheme of things, terrorism is rare, it's unlikely to affect Joe Bloggs on the street. Abandoning freedom of speech however would affect everyone.
Depends on your age and location. I feel like it's been a constant where only the ideology of the perpetrators has changed.

I was in a bomb attack as a kid in Manchester city centre when the Lufthansa office on St.Ann's Square was blown up.

When the Warrington bomb happened, I was returning from a shopping trip to Chester. I needed to change trains at Warrington and all trains were delayed whilst police searched the station.

When the 1996 Manchester bomb happened, my house was being rewired and, even thought it was 19miles away, we felt and heard the blast.


Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of responsibility for what you say.
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  #145  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:56
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of responsibility for what you say.
Beautifully put, and exactly correct.
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  #146  
Old 20.06.2016, 10:59
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Maybe I'm confused here. In that passage you just quoted, it sounds to me like James O'Brien said whatever he wanted to say -- is that what you mean by freedom of speech? If so, I guess he has it.
He has his right to freedom of speech. And equally I have the right not to pay attention.

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I know exactly what he was saying. He said that people could conceivably be pushed to murder by ceaseless fear mongering. Do you debate that? I didn't hear him suggest legislating against anyone.
And what's the logical next step with this line of argument?

SILENCE THEM! SELF CENSORSHIP!
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  #147  
Old 20.06.2016, 11:09
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Depends on your age and location. I feel like it's been a constant where only the ideology of the perpetrators has changed.
No it doesn't, it depends on facts. You grew up in Lancashire, not Dafur.

http://www.datagraver.com/thumbs/130...ern-europe.png

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Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of responsibility for what you say.
Does that include these guys?`


Last edited by 3Wishes; 20.06.2016 at 16:25. Reason: changed huge photo to link
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  #148  
Old 20.06.2016, 11:22
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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He has his right to freedom of speech. And equally I have the right not to pay attention.



And what's the logical next step with this line of argument?

SILENCE THEM! SELF CENSORSHIP!
Well, self censorship has a bad word in it but it's also just called personal responsibility.
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  #149  
Old 20.06.2016, 11:23
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

Your post just doesn't make any sense, and I haven't a clue what that photo is supposed to be of.

How can you compare Lancashire and a war zone??? Your stats cannot deny my experience and the experience of millions of people like me. We grew up with kids making prank calls from 'Red George'. Terrorism was just there. It was part of our growing up. My school was evacuated three times in 5yrs because of supposed threats, and after all that, plus the spectre of the Yorkshire Ripper looming large, the most damage ever caused to my town was caused by Bradford and Millwall fans.
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  #150  
Old 20.06.2016, 12:22
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Well, self censorship has a bad word in it but it's also just called personal responsibility.
The personal responsibility does seem to have its limits though nowadays when it comes to the hard left. Mention immigration from any location right now and your immediately despicable racist scum who should be ashamed of themselves. State that Israel should be wiped off the map and there's perhaps a general murmer of agreement along with one or two "ahem, well, doug, could be a bit strong there" in rare cases.

It doesnt quite seem even.
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  #151  
Old 20.06.2016, 12:34
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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The personal responsibility does seem to have its limits though nowadays when it comes to the hard left. Mention immigration from any location right now and your immediately despicable racist scum who should be ashamed of themselves. State that Israel should be wiped off the map and there's perhaps a general murmer of agreement along with one or two "ahem, well, doug, could be a bit strong there" in rare cases.

It doesnt quite seem even.
This may be the case in the circles you move in, but is far from being the norm in my experience.

Without wishing to take this thread any further off track... Immigration, migration and the refugee crisis are global issues and a problem that most countries don't know how to handle yet. My attitude is that we've done this before many times, and we can do it again.

What I truly resent is the way the refugee crisis is confused with migration and immigration. They are totally different things.

As for Israel...any sea change in politics, immigration, etc, takes at least two generations to settle and resolve. We will get there as long as the politics of Israel aren't artificially backed and propped up by Western governments on the occassions when they are in the wrong.
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  #152  
Old 20.06.2016, 12:42
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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It doesnt quite seem even.
Of course not. If you invent total uneven bollocks then why is it a surprise that it's uneven?

Most people who create a straw-man arguments do so in order to trick other people. This thread seems to be full of such obvious fakery that I can only assume you're trying to trick yourselves. And this is on multiple related threads, and on both sides of the debate. Why bother?
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  #153  
Old 20.06.2016, 16:21
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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The personal responsibility does seem to have its limits though nowadays when it comes to the hard left. Mention immigration from any location right now and your immediately despicable racist scum who should be ashamed of themselves. State that Israel should be wiped off the map and there's perhaps a general murmer of agreement along with one or two "ahem, well, doug, could be a bit strong there" in rare cases.

It doesnt quite seem even.
I'd argue that the "Israel are bad" fashion is so two years ago, daaarling. The current trend is back to labeling any criticism of Israeli policy as Anti-Semite.
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  #154  
Old 20.06.2016, 16:28
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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I'd argue that the "Israel are bad" fashion is so two years ago, daaarling. The current trend is back to labeling any criticism of Israeli policy as Anti-Semite.
To be honest you, writing this post is anti-Semitic IMO
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  #155  
Old 20.06.2016, 17:54
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

There's something quite vomit inducing watching MPs crawling over each other to be the most distraught yet eloquent. Virtually all of them would quite happily have crushed her career if it meant advancing their own. This is modern politics.
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  #156  
Old 20.06.2016, 18:13
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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He will appear at the same court for a preliminary hearing before Mr Justice Saunders at 10am on Thursday.
The case is being heard under the terrorism protocol.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7091586.html
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  #157  
Old 20.06.2016, 18:23
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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There's something quite vomit inducing watching MPs crawling over each other to be the most distraught yet eloquent. Virtually all of them would quite happily have crushed her career if it meant advancing their own. This is modern politics.
I think they, like most people know how to separate work and personal. I'd happily crush my brother at monopoly given a chance. I'd be pretty cut up if he were assassinated by a brexit Nazi though.
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  #158  
Old 20.06.2016, 18:39
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack



My googlefoo has let me down. Could someone point me at an explanation of what "The terrorism Protocol" is?
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  #159  
Old 20.06.2016, 18:42
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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I think they, like most people know how to separate work and personal. I'd happily crush my brother at monopoly given a chance. I'd be pretty cut up if he were assassinated by a brexit Nazi though.
Brexit Nazi Scum. dont forget scum, its important to add that when its a Brexit topic.
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Old 20.06.2016, 18:46
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Re: Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack

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Brexit Nazi Scum. dont forget scum, its important to add that when its a Brexit topic.
Don't know if it's a brexit topic but he was certainly pro brexit and certainly a nazi. IMO he's scum too.
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