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View Poll Results: Would you like Marine Le Pen to become president and take France out of the EU?
Yes I want her to become president and take France out of the EU. 7 10.45%
Yes I want her to become president, but France should stay in the EU. 5 7.46%
No I don't want her to become president, but France should leave the EU nonetheless. 4 5.97%
No I don't want her to become president and I don't want France to leave the EU. 41 61.19%
I couldn't care less about Marine Le Pen, France, or the EU. 10 14.93%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 23.11.2016, 10:39
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Oh, you don't notice the social fabric of the country has already long been in a process of being destroyed with the current cast of clowns?

The hubris is tragic and comedic.
Agreed, the ruling "elite" are now after years and years of pandering to their own interests still unable to comprehend the deep schism between them, lets call them, "the money" and those without, they do not understand how people who just about make ends meet are frightened about the future especially as they see a growing amount of people who can no longer make ends meet and want somebody in charge who listens to them, right wing populists sprout the rhetoric they want to hear.
For instance Germany´s Finance minister Herr Schäuble remarked or boasted that Germany´s tax income is gushing, (die Steuern sprudeln) not a good thing to mention in times of austerity.
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  #62  
Old 23.11.2016, 10:50
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Agreed, the ruling "elite" are now after years and years of pandering to their own interests still unable to comprehend the deep schism between them, lets call them, "the money" and those without, they do not understand how people who just about make ends meet are frightened about the future especially as they see a growing amount of people who can no longer make ends meet and want somebody in charge who listens to them, right wing populists sprout the rhetoric they want to hear.
For instance Germany´s Finance minister Herr Schäuble remarked or boasted that Germany´s tax income is gushing, (die Steuern sprudeln) not a good thing to mention in times of austerity.
I agree that the "champagne socialists" have done more damage to the country than the self-confessed "I'm all right, Jack" conservatives. Yes, too many people are living on the bread line. Same as in Holland, Germany and Italy.
I cannot bring myself to believe that Farage successfully removed the cornerstone of the EU and that this whole edifice will now come crumbling down around our ears. Surely there are enough reasonable people to recognize that:
- Brexit was a mistake brought about through blatant mistruths and manipulation
- Trump was a candidate that is now being disavowed by his own supporters (due to more of the same)
- peace in Europe since the end of WWII has been mostly due to the pursuit of a common goal.

(I found a poppy in the gutter at the airport last weekend, and felt a deep sense of dismay and sadness. It made me wonder what my grandfather - who fought in WWII - would have thought of current events).
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  #63  
Old 23.11.2016, 10:55
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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I agree that the "champagne socialists" have done more damage to the country than the self-confessed "I'm all right, Jack" conservatives. Yes, too many people are living on the bread line. Same as in Holland, Germany and Italy.
I cannot bring myself to believe that Farage successfully removed the cornerstone of the EU and that this whole edifice will now come crumbling down around our ears. Surely there are enough reasonable people to recognize that:
- Brexit was a mistake brought about through blatant mistruths and manipulation
- Trump was a candidate that is now being disavowed by his own supporters (due to more of the same)
- peace in Europe since the end of WWII has been mostly due to the pursuit of a common goal.

(I found a poppy in the gutter at the airport last weekend, and felt a deep sense of dismay and sadness. It made me wonder what my grandfather - who fought in WWII - would have thought of current events).
What you are seeing with Brexit, Trump and others, is a democratic vote against this established intransigence. Its the people speaking out in a bloodless and orderly manner. Now look for Nazis and racists where you will. But it is a ridiculous and somewhat mindless position that all this is about tearing the "fabric of society". That is drama queen crap. They would like to save their societies.
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  #64  
Old 23.11.2016, 11:15
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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What you are seeing with Brexit, Trump and others, is a democratic vote against this established intransigence. Its the people speaking out in a bloodless and orderly manner. Now look for Nazis and racists where you will. But it is a ridiculous and somewhat mindless position that all this is about tearing the "fabric of society". That is drama queen crap. They would like to save their societies.
Bloodless, hmm.

Tell that to Joe Cox's children, you ignorant, indoctrinated individual.

I have never once used the word Nazi, that is purely your invention. But from a psychological standpoint, quite revealing.
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  #65  
Old 23.11.2016, 11:32
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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(I found a poppy in the gutter at the airport last weekend, and felt a deep sense of dismay and sadness. It made me wonder what my grandfather - who fought in WWII - would have thought of current events).

You mean back in WW2 when
1) women were referred to as "Dames", "Broads" and "toots"
2) there were only two sexes.
3) homosexuals were considered deviant
4) Black men were second class citizens
5) There really was a wage gap
6) Europeans were seen as incapable of coexisting
7) Factories could spew toxic waste right into your drinking supply
8) Governments could carry out secret experiments on humans
9) etc, etc.


So my guess is he would look around today and say, "what the hell happened?"




edit: I forgot this one - The rights of the many still outweighed the rights of the one
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  #66  
Old 23.11.2016, 11:38
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You mean back in WW2 when
1) women were referred to as "Dames", "Broads" and "toots"
2) there were only two sexes.
3) homosexuals were considered deviant
4) Black men were second class citizens
5) There really was a wage gap
6) Europeans were seen as incapable of coexisting
7) Factories could spew toxic waste right into your drinking supply
8) Governments could carry out secret experiments on humans
9) etc, etc.


So my guess is he would look around today and say, "what the hell happened?"




edit: I forgot this one - The rights of the many still outweighed the rights of the one
You say that like it´s a bad thing...
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  #67  
Old 23.11.2016, 11:54
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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my guess is he would look around today and say, "what the hell happened?"

edit: I forgot this one - The rights of the many still outweighed the rights of the one
Yes, I'm sure he would ask what had happened. Why so many like him risked their lives to bring peace back to France and the allies. And why so many died for it.
Why the architects of the EU did their best to preserve peace in the West for future generations.
How an idiot and swindler like Farage could get any farther than a soap box in Hyde Park.
Why the gullible masses would accept to be fed the lies spewing from their TV sets in infomercials.
Why there is no more critical thinking.
Why the world he knew and cared about no longer exists.
Why the individual, in an increasingly consumer society, cares more about reality TV than the environment and education.
The list is endless.

Oh, and btw, nowadays, a woman isn't a "broad", she's a bitch, a c*nt or a ho. Mmmn, things have really improved.
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  #68  
Old 23.11.2016, 11:59
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

In the 2nd round, I really can't see Ms. Le Pen's coalition of far-right and disillusioned ex-socialists beating Fillon's more or less willing coalition of everyone else. Compare with Chirac's landslide versus Le Pen père in 2002. I'm looking to bet 100€ against Le Pen winning. Anyone got any good suggestions where to do it?

I'll take you on Frank, but lets make it more poetic.....

If Marine wins, you buy Lunch in Cafe de Paris (Place Cornavin/CFF) within 1 month after the final result being known for us both, with booze, if Marine loses i buy lunch and booze in Cafe de Paris for us both.
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  #69  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:01
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You mean back in WW2 when
1) women were referred to as "Dames", "Broads" and "toots"
2) there were only two sexes.
3) homosexuals were considered deviant
4) Black men were second class citizens
5) There really was a wage gap
6) Europeans were seen as incapable of coexisting
7) Factories could spew toxic waste right into your drinking supply
8) Governments could carry out secret experiments on humans
9) etc, etc.


So my guess is he would look around today and say, "what the hell happened?"




edit: I forgot this one - The rights of the many still outweighed the rights of the one
Well, OK, a lot of stuff has improved since those days. But mostly societal change happens through system dynamics, through supply and demand, through copycatism and herd behavior, through popular philosophy and advancement of thought and understanding, etc etc. In other words, things the government doesn't directly control or lead but at best responds to. I don't really buy into this theory that we somehow have Hilary Clinton or Nicolas Sarkozy or Jean-Claude Junker or their predecessors to thank for all this, or that somehow voting against them would lead to an overturn of all of this.
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Old 23.11.2016, 12:01
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

Poppies are actually for World War 1, representing the poppies on the Somme after the artillery have churned up and remodelled the battle fields thus allowing the poppies to germinate and flourish.

WW II remembrance was bolted on to WW I
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  #71  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:12
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Poppies are actually for World War 1, representing the poppies on the Somme after the artillery have churned up and remodelled the battle fields thus allowing the poppies to germinate and flourish.

WW II remembrance was bolted on to WW I
Poppycock (if you'll excuse the pun):

"The significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in World War One and later conflicts. It was adopted by The Royal British Legion as the symbol for their Poppy Appeal, in aid of those serving in the British Armed Forces, after its formation in 1921."

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/john...ers-fields.htm

Last edited by Britething; 23.11.2016 at 12:15. Reason: adding link
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  #72  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:14
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Yes, I'm sure he would ask what had happened. Why so many like him risked their lives to bring peace back to France and the allies. And why so many died for it.
Why the architects of the EU did their best to preserve peace in the West for future generations.
How an idiot and swindler like Farage could get any farther than a soap box in Hyde Park.
Why the gullible masses would accept to be fed the lies spewing from their TV sets in infomercials.
Why there is no more critical thinking.
Why the world he knew and cared about no longer exists.
Why the individual, in an increasingly consumer society, cares more about reality TV than the environment and education.
The list is endless.

Oh, and btw, nowadays, a woman isn't a "broad", she's a bitch, a c*nt or a ho. Mmmn, things have really improved.

So, are you implying we should make the world great again?
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  #73  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:22
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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So, are you implying we should make the world great again?
Definitely. By bringing back the notion of public service (and not serving one's personal interests), perhaps?

Hillary was not a perfect candidate. But she was infinitely preferable to the one we've (all, whether we like it or not) been landed with.

(And I'm very curious about those swing state statistics - stay tuned).

Fillon is way smarter, and a much better potential President than Marine.
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  #74  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:27
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Definitely. By bringing back the notion of public service (and not serving one's personal interests), perhaps?
This is something you do, not something you force someone else to do. Then, I don't see anyone stopping you from doing it today.

Unless you had something else in mind.
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  #75  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:49
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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This is something you do, not something you force someone else to do. Then, I don't see anyone stopping you from doing it today.

Unless you had something else in mind.
You're not that dense, Phos, are you? I was implying that DT - who we can all now see - is only in it for himself. He will make sure America is great for his family.

Le Pen père has also done very well for himself personally, though not on Trump's scale. And how he amassed such wealth exactly has long been the subject of much scandal and doubt, notably about the legitimacy of a certain inheritance.

"In 1977, Le Pen inherited a fortune from Hubert Lambert (1934-1976), son of the cement industrialist Leon Lambert (1877-1952), one of three sons of Lambert Cement founder Hilaire Lambert. Hubert Lambert was a political supporter of Le Pen, as well as being a monarchist. Lambert's will provided 30 million francs (approximatively 5 million euros) to Le Pen, as well as his opulent three-storey 11-room mansion at 8 Parc de Montretout, Saint-Cloud (the home had been built by Napoleon III for his chief of staff Jean-Francois Mocquard."

(But I do believe in the personal effort required of each individual btw. I make a small personal contribution to the community every week.
Just out of interest, do you?)

Last edited by Britething; 23.11.2016 at 12:55. Reason: info
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  #76  
Old 23.11.2016, 12:55
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

It's probably already been said, but shouldn't it be 'Frortie'. You know how touchy the French are about preserving their language.
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  #77  
Old 23.11.2016, 13:01
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Valid points.

But my opinion is that as far as your views on the FN are concerned, they're out of date by about 10 years. Marine has really pulled some big changes and most of daddy's old chums and sidekicks have been sidelined, as have his ideas and policies.
Not so. Dad was allowed back in:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ary-president/

Bad news for Marine, but good news for the rest of the world. Let them continue bickering - it discredits their party.
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  #78  
Old 23.11.2016, 13:03
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Definitely. By bringing back the notion of public service (and not serving one's personal interests), perhaps?

Hillary was not a perfect candidate. But she was infinitely preferable to the one we've (all, whether we like it or not) been landed with.

(And I'm very curious about those swing state statistics - stay tuned).

Fillon is way smarter, and a much better potential President than Marine.
I do agree with your first point. "Ask not what your country can do for you..." and so forth.

It was one of the reason I voted for Obama (first term). I thought he was going to bring back something like the CCC, launch all those infrastructure jobs (remember all those "shovel ready" projects?), create meaningful work for the unemployed and help the country during the time of deep financial crisis. Then he was going to go into the budget with a scalpel and cut the waste.
Boy, was I mistaken. Instead, more of the same old, same old.
Bail out Wall Street, AIG and GM. Screw the little guy. Buy more votes.


Hillary certainly wasn't going to do anything different. I doubt Trump will either.
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Old 23.11.2016, 13:20
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You mean back in WW2 when
1) women were referred to as "Dames", "Broads" and "toots"
2) there were only two sexes.
3) homosexuals were considered deviant
4) Black men were second class citizens
5) There really was a wage gap
6) Europeans were seen as incapable of coexisting
7) Factories could spew toxic waste right into your drinking supply
8) Governments could carry out secret experiments on humans
9) etc, etc.


So my guess is he would look around today and say, "what the hell happened?"

edit: I forgot this one - The rights of the many still outweighed the rights of the one
You missed Brexit then
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Old 23.11.2016, 13:28
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You're not that dense, Phos, are you? I was implying that DT - who we can all now see - is only in it for himself. He will make sure America is great for his family.
No, I think you're just emotionally confused. But that's alright. It seems to be somewhat contagious.
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