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View Poll Results: Would you like Marine Le Pen to become president and take France out of the EU?
Yes I want her to become president and take France out of the EU. 7 10.29%
Yes I want her to become president, but France should stay in the EU. 6 8.82%
No I don't want her to become president, but France should leave the EU nonetheless. 4 5.88%
No I don't want her to become president and I don't want France to leave the EU. 41 60.29%
I couldn't care less about Marine Le Pen, France, or the EU. 10 14.71%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 23.11.2016, 13:38
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Poppies are actually for World War 1, representing the poppies on the Somme after the artillery have churned up and remodelled the battle fields thus allowing the poppies to germinate and flourish.

WW II remembrance was bolted on to WW I
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Poppycock (if you'll excuse the pun):

"The significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in World War One and later conflicts. It was adopted by The Royal British Legion as the symbol for their Poppy Appeal, in aid of those serving in the British Armed Forces, after its formation in 1921."

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/john...ers-fields.htm
Errm aren't you just confirming what he wrote?

Using a poppy as the symbol for remembrance originates from the First World War and the poem and the poppy appeal began with the inception of the Royal British legion in 1921. It went on to later include subsequent conflicts but couldn't have been for WWII at the outset as it hadn't even taken place.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/reme...-of-the-poppy/

Last edited by Belgianmum; 23.11.2016 at 13:55. Reason: Forgot link when posting,
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  #82  
Old 23.11.2016, 13:48
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Errm aren't you just confirming what he wrote?

Using a poppy as the symbol for remembrance originates from the First World War and the poem and the poppy appeal began with the inception of the Royal British legion in 1921. It went on to later include subsequent conflicts but couldn't have been for WWII at the outset as it hadn't even taken place.
You fail to identify the symbolism of blood let on the fields of battle? It wasn't just because flowers grew back, for goodness' sake!
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  #83  
Old 23.11.2016, 13:54
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You fail to identify the symbolism of blood let on the fields of battle? It wasn't just because flowers grew back, for goodness' sake!

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm


I'm not sure you can even make the inference of blood in the poem, but go for it. Its more dramatic and symbolic your way...






In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.


We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.


Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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  #84  
Old 23.11.2016, 14:16
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm
I'm not sure you can even make the inference of blood in the poem, but go for it. Its more dramatic and symbolic your way...
(Thanks, I'd already given a link to the poem below.)

But that was precisely the intention, to find a strong symbol to portray the waste of life. Millions slaughtered on the battlefields, spilling their young blood into the soil as the carnage went on.

Then silence, and eventually these blood-red flowers that grew up from the ruins.
I see a poppy today, and that is what it means to me.

Growing up, we went to Remembrance Sunday every year - we all did. "Lest we forget" ...

So now, if I see a poppy in the gutter, yes, I pick it up. It has a strong meaning, it isn't just some random flower that survived an environmental onslaut.
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  #85  
Old 23.11.2016, 14:25
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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(Thanks, I'd already given a link to the poem below.)

But that was precisely the intention, to find a strong symbol to portray the waste of life. Millions slaughtered on the battlefields, spilling their young blood into the soil as the carnage went on.

Then silence, and eventually these blood-red flowers that grew up from the ruins.
I see a poppy today, and that is what it means to me.

Growing up, we went to Remembrance Sunday every year - we all did. "Lest we forget" ...

So now, if I see a poppy in the gutter, yes, I pick it up. It has a strong meaning, it isn't just some random flower that survived an environmental onslaut.
Interesting how the same thing has different symbolism in different countries; some countries see poppies as a symbol of drugs.
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  #86  
Old 23.11.2016, 14:58
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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(Thanks, I'd already given a link to the poem below.)

But that was precisely the intention, to find a strong symbol to portray the waste of life. Millions slaughtered on the battlefields, spilling their young blood into the soil as the carnage went on.

Then silence, and eventually these blood-red flowers that grew up from the ruins.
I see a poppy today, and that is what it means to me.

Growing up, we went to Remembrance Sunday every year - we all did. "Lest we forget" ...

So now, if I see a poppy in the gutter, yes, I pick it up. It has a strong meaning, it isn't just some random flower that survived an environmental onslaut.
That is your interpretation of it.
I grew up believing the poppy to be a symbol of remembrance of all those who died but also a symbol of hope.


From the British legion link I posted above

WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

A symbol of Remembrance and hope
Worn by millions of people
Red because of the natural colour of field poppies


The poppy is NOT

A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
A reflection of politics or religion
Red to reflect the colour of blood


Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.
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  #87  
Old 23.11.2016, 15:04
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Interesting how the same thing has different symbolism in different countries; some countries see poppies as a symbol of drugs.
The poppies they make into drugs are generally blue or indigo coloured and much larger than the common red poppy. They're an entirely differernt species.

You'd have trouble extracting enough opiate from common field poppies to do any damage.

However the two meanings are not totally separate as in ancient Greece the poppy symbolized both unnatural sleep (probably due to its opiate properties) as well as the dead coming back to life. The Ancient Romans placed poppies on the graves of relatives to symbolise their awakening from the dead in the afterworld.

Poppies have been domesticated by humans since at least 6000BC, making them one of the oldest domesticated plants.
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  #88  
Old 23.11.2016, 16:14
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Poppycock (if you'll excuse the pun):

"The significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in World War One and later conflicts. It was adopted by The Royal British Legion as the symbol for their Poppy Appeal, in aid of those serving in the British Armed Forces, after its formation in 1921."

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/john...ers-fields.htm
Hardshit, which is a perfectly good answer as poppy cock comes from old Dutch where it was pappycak meaning soft shit.

"It was adopted by The Royal British Legion as the symbol for their Poppy Appeal, in aid of those serving in the British Armed Forces, after its formation in 1921."

World War II was from 1939-1945, the poppy was originally a sysmbol for loss and suffering from first World War, all others are bolted on. The significance of the poppy is the representation of the churned up battle fields of the Somme where poppies grew in as much abundance as men were killed.
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  #89  
Old 23.11.2016, 17:25
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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You don't have to like him. We are well into least worst territory here, as in the UK and USA. I think the French will happily elect "a safe pair of hands" like Fillon, after Sarko (good riddance to the little $hit) or Hollande (ditto).

In the 2nd round, I really can't see Ms. Le Pen's coalition of far-right and disillusioned ex-socialists beating Fillon's more or less willing coalition of everyone else. Compare with Chirac's landslide versus Le Pen père in 2002. I'm looking to bet 100€ against Le Pen winning. Anyone got any good suggestions where to do it?
So I suppose Alain Juppe has no chance then? Note - I don't "like" the little Napoleon either but at least let's just say we know him.. (anyway he's out so good riddance indeed)




Between Fillon and Juppe, who would you guys choose? Just hypothetically...
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  #90  
Old 23.11.2016, 17:34
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Between Fillon and Juppe, who would you guys choose? Just hypothetically...
Juppé. People remember him as prime minister under Chirac so there is continuity and they pretty much know what they're getting if they elect him.
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  #91  
Old 23.11.2016, 17:37
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Between Fillon and Juppe, who would you guys choose? Just hypothetically...
I think Alain Juppé will win that battle. I think a lot of people voted tactically for Francois Fillon to get rid of Sarkozy but will go back to Juppé in the next round.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 28.11.2016 at 07:57.
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Old 23.11.2016, 18:41
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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That is your interpretation of it.
I grew up believing the poppy to be a symbol of remembrance of all those who died but also a symbol of hope.
From the same BL link:

"The Story Behind the Remembrance Poppy

From its association with poppies flowering in the spring of 1915 on the battlefields of Belgium, France and Gallipoli this vivid red flower has become synonymous with great loss of life in war."

We are talking about more or less the same thing. Granted, it was initially for the First World War, but as has been said, the importance of remembering the sacrifice of those fallen for the Second World War was 'tagged on'.

The only element of hope is that :
- people will not forget
- that they will realize the human sacrifice that was made
- that they will not allow History to repeat the same errors

and THAT is why what is happening today is of particular relevance. There are nearly no survivors of WW2 (I believe in France, the last one died in 2015?) so the need to preserve the memory of the human losses sustained in the last century becomes the responsibility of those alive today.
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  #93  
Old 23.11.2016, 18:56
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

Shouldn't there be a separate thread for this poppy discussion?

This ones about Le Pen taking the treble!
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  #94  
Old 23.11.2016, 19:14
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Shouldn't there be a separate thread for this poppy discussion?

This ones about Le Pen taking the treble!
I guess you missed the bit about "particular relevance" and "History not repeating itself". Did you miss the bit about Le Pen Sr being a fervent fan of Pétain? Not doing your homework kriss ...
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Old 23.11.2016, 19:27
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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I guess you missed the bit about "particular relevance" and "History not repeating itself". Did you miss the bit about Le Pen Sr being a fervent fan of Pétain? Not doing your homework kriss ...
Good things come in threes
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  #96  
Old 23.11.2016, 19:29
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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I guess you missed the bit about "particular relevance" and "History not repeating itself". Did you miss the bit about Le Pen Sr being a fervent fan of Pétain?
But but Le Pen Jr has distanced herself from papa ... She's good to go...

I'm being ironic, of course. It's obvious it was done only because it could have meant her "political suicide"...even they play by some rules, apparently. At least till they win.
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  #97  
Old 23.11.2016, 20:07
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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But but Le Pen Jr has distanced herself from papa ... She's good to go...

I'm being ironic, of course. It's obvious it was done only because it could have meant her "political suicide"...even they play by some rules, apparently. At least till they win.
Na, I think it's genuine.

Have you seen any videos of papa speaking lately?

He's borderline senile and totally bonkers. He makes no sense. He viciously attacks members of his own party, seeing conspiracies everywhere. He incoherently foams about Zionists and Freemasons. More than admiring Pétain he is almost becoming Pétain. He would do himself a favour by shutting up and being remembered for his past leadership. I think this is more or less what Marine must have told him, but he refuses to listen.
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  #98  
Old 23.11.2016, 21:33
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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Na, I think it's genuine.

Have you seen any videos of papa speaking lately?

He's borderline senile and totally bonkers. He makes no sense. He viciously attacks members of his own party, seeing conspiracies everywhere. He incoherently foams about Zionists and Freemasons. More than admiring Pétain he is almost becoming Pétain. He would do himself a favour by shutting up and being remembered for his past leadership. I think this is more or less what Marine must have told him, but he refuses to listen.
He's probably senile and talks way more than he should in public, agree. She's not naive, nor new in politics or in this world, so she knows she must distance herself from all that "babbling".
What she really believes or how important would be for her to distance from her father if she didn't have too, that's an entirely other matter. We cannot know.
They all want to put up a better image and I doubt she really cares about other people's hurt feeling. (that doesn't necessarily makes her an anti-semite of course, just discussing about how genuine she is)
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Old 23.11.2016, 21:35
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

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He's senile and talks way more than he should in public, agree. She's not naive, nor new in politics or in this world, so she knows she must distance herself from all that "babbling".
What she really believes or how important would be for her to distance from her father if she didn't have too, that's an entirely other matter. We cannot know.
Another senile babbler. At least he doesn't use and abuse a Twitter account (does he?).

They won't let her distance herself. Judge just decided he has to remain (see previous post on the subject).
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Old 27.11.2016, 23:35
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Re: Marine Le Pen for president and Frexit

And François Fillon just one the primaries. He's got a real reformer's program, looks like he can steal votes from Marine Le Pen too. 23rd of April 2017 will be an interesting evening...
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