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Old 16.07.2016, 09:21
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Balls, looks to have failed. There'll be a few bloody, pitted walls by the end of today. Erdogan will really go to town on cementing his power now.
You sound disappointed
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Old 16.07.2016, 09:31
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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As much as I may dislike Erdogan's strongarm tactics I like military coups even less. Egypt being a prime example of the public cheering one day and ruing their trashing of democracy the next. As long as the mechanisms to democratically remove the Akp remain in place I would always favour that over people paid to kill ruling a country.
It takes a lot to shock me, but the apparent support for the coup attempt shown by quite a few members on this thread has done so.

To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.
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Old 16.07.2016, 09:49
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It takes a lot to shock me, but the apparent support for the coup attempt shown by quite a few members on this thread has done so.
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You sound disappointed
Of course I am. You talk about supporting the "democratically elected government", yet Erdogan rules like anything other than a democratic leader. Speak out against him and you get put in prison. He has closed down Newspapers, Twitter, YouTube and Facebook when he thought they could undermine his power. There is unbelievable levels of censorship in Turkey. Look at the number of journalists he's put in prison. How is a democracy expected to thrive when anyone that speaks out against the current government gets thrown in prison?

Erdogan is a world class turd. He wants to become the next Islamic Sultanate and turn his back on Ataturk's Reforms that dragged Turkey into the 20th century. He should go, by coup or any means. And let's not forget that Hitler was also "democratically elected".
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Old 16.07.2016, 09:51
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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You sound disappointed
Of course, because he doesn't know where his arse is...

Nothing good can come out from this today. A coup is a Catastrophy but a failed attempt coup is as bad.
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Old 16.07.2016, 09:54
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It takes a lot to shock me, but the apparent support for the coup attempt shown by quite a few members on this thread has done so.

To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.
Truly don't understand your post. Little difference between a lunatic murderer in a truck and a failed military coup?

History is riddled with military coups. Look at recent European history, Spain and Turkey being obvious examples. Erdogan's democracy isn't a democracy like the Oxford dictionary's definition. When a group of people don't like the government or their leaders they sometimes try to take the law into their own hands. It's never nice and rarely bloodless, but that's how it works in certain parts of the world.

What have we learned? I'm guessing that Turkey isn't about to become a new EU member anytime soon and NATO forces will have to lay low. And the Kurds will still have the crap bombed out of them in northern Iraq and Erdogan will strut around as some victor.
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Old 16.07.2016, 09:54
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Of course I am. You talk about supporting the "democratically elected government", yet Erdogan rules like anything other than a democratic leader. Speak out against him and you get put in prison. He has closed down Newspapers, Twitter, YouTube and Facebook when he thought they could undermine his power. There is unbelievable levels of censorship in Turkey. Look at the number of journalists he's put in prison. How is a democracy expected to thrive when anyone that speaks out against the current government gets thrown in prison?

Erdogan is a world class turd. He wants to become the next Islamic Sultanate and turn his back on Ataturk's Reforms that dragged Turkey into the 20th century. He should go, by coup or any means. And let's not forget that Hitler was also "democratically elected".
It doesn't matter how Erdogan is a turd, democratic hater. He was elected by more than the half of the population. He has a big support still and a coup is an absolute awful idea for the population, economy, security and safety.

I hate the guy deeply but I can put my feelings on him on the side and think straight.
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Old 16.07.2016, 10:05
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Looks like Erdogan will have his own version of the night of the long knives.
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Old 16.07.2016, 10:09
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.

I think there is a world of difference between a coup or an attempted coup and a madman who deliberately sets out (for whatever reasons) with the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible.

I think it is also different from the troubles.

If anything it is closer to the Ukrainian spring.

What it really is will depend on the fate of the 1400 odd people who are currently under arrest.

One of the ways to judge a democracy is to examine how it deals with dissent.
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Old 16.07.2016, 10:21
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Truly don't understand your post. Little difference between a lunatic murderer in a truck and a failed military coup?

History is riddled with military coups. Look at recent European history, Spain and Turkey being obvious examples. Erdogan's democracy isn't a democracy like the Oxford dictionary's definition. When a group of people don't like the government or their leaders they sometimes try to take the law into their own hands. It's never nice and rarely bloodless, but that's how it works in certain parts of the world.

What have we learned? I'm guessing that Turkey isn't about to become a new EU member anytime soon and NATO forces will have to lay low. And the Kurds will still have the crap bombed out of them in northern Iraq and Erdogan will strut around as some victor.
Thomas Jefferson said when government infringes on peoples rights then it is the responsibility of those citizens to take back their even if by force is necessary. State militias did so, and then, eventually by a bloody revolution and alot of details there became the USA. I think a world concern is in the vacuum you could see an IS movement or similar. Keep things as the status quo. But they aren't the status quo when peoples freedoms are seized by one person.
Quick edit...I put 2 historical facts together as if was Thomas Jefferson saying that was a need for a revolution, hence the American Revolution. I didn't mean that. I meant we had a revolution because we had no representation and not the same rights, and after the fact, if it would happen in an American government, or elsewhere, violence, if necessary, is necessary, to take back your basic human rights(to Twitter he meant for sure of course). Just wanted to be clear.
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Old 16.07.2016, 10:29
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

There goes the last chance of Turkey to get back on track being a developed, western, modern, secular state. Now it is on fast track to become the next Jamahiriya.

Next time it will be the westerners who will take down Erdogan but it will be done in the Saddam way.
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  #91  
Old 16.07.2016, 10:40
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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There goes the last chance of Turkey to get back on track being a developed, western, modern, secular state. Now it is on fast track to become the next Jamahiriya.

Next time it will be the westerners who will take down Erdogan but it will be done in the Saddam way.
I very much doubt that, "The West" could choose to make some noise, but I rather doubt it, and for the rest they will do a prime directive and not get mixed up in Turkish internal affairs. Erdogan simply has to say the magic word: "refugees" and our politicians will cave in.
Some people will now "disappear" and Erdogan will go all medieval on what is left of the free press.
It´s the way of the real world.
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Old 16.07.2016, 10:55
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

The government has back control of Istanbul

Rumour is The rebels still have control of Ankara and south of Ankara

It is not for sure the Government will control the full Turkey

It is clear The West supports the Government
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:03
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It takes a lot to shock me, but the apparent support for the coup attempt shown by quite a few members on this thread has done so.

To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.
What a very strange thing to compare. It's not even like comparing apples with pears, at least those have being fruits in common.

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Looks like Erdogan will have his own version of the night of the long knives.
Oh he will. As I mentioned last night, he will be worse than ever.
The last democratic thing about Erdogan was his election. What happened last night showed clearly how desperate those are who want a true democracy with separation of church and state. They will now be tortured in the jails of the democratic Erdogan.

It is all very complex but to me it's clear that claiming democracy has been saved in Turkey last night is BS. A true democratic president would take this incident last night to think things over, to step down and organize new elections (and release all the political opponents from jail - who in a democracy would not be in there at all - beforehand so they can get organized and vote).
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:10
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Truly don't understand your post. Little difference between a lunatic murderer in a truck and a failed military coup?

History is riddled with military coups. Look at recent European history, Spain and Turkey being obvious examples. Erdogan's democracy isn't a democracy like the Oxford dictionary's definition. When a group of people don't like the government or their leaders they sometimes try to take the law into their own hands. It's never nice and rarely bloodless, but that's how it works in certain parts of the world.

What have we learned? I'm guessing that Turkey isn't about to become a new EU member anytime soon and NATO forces will have to lay low. And the Kurds will still have the crap bombed out of them in northern Iraq and South East Turkey and Erdogan will strut around as some victor.
Fixed that for you
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:15
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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The government has back control of Istanbul

Rumour is The rebels still have control of Ankara and south of Ankara

It is not for sure the Government will control the full Turkey

It is clear The West supports the Government
According to the newspapers Istanbul airport was freed from the military by an invasion of Erdogan supporters so allowing Erdogan's plane to land; I wonder how they knew to gather and do that?

Sometimes I must put my tin foil hat on and wonder how conveniently this all worked out for Erdogan.
No doubt we will soon hear speeches about how Turkey is demonstrably unstable and needs a strong president with full powers.
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:22
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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According to the newspapers Istanbul airport was freed from the military by an invasion of Erdogan supporters so allowing Erdogan's plane to land; I wonder how they knew to gather and do that?

Sometimes I must put my tin foil hat on and wonder how conveniently this all worked out for Erdogan.
No doubt we will soon hear speeches about how Turkey is demonstrably unstable and needs a strong president with full powers.
And if/when we hear that the deathtoll is assymetrically distributed and are shown pictures of tanks for the putsch, and concerned citizens draped in flags against, then we need to understand that flags are much more dangerous than tanks.

Last edited by JagWaugh; 16.07.2016 at 11:34.
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:42
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

From the Guardian

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Here’s a breakdown of the death toll in the Turkish coup, as provided by General Umit Dundar, the newly appointed acting chief of the general staff. More than 190 people dead:

41 police officers,
Two soldiers
47 civilians
104 people described as “coup plotters.”
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Old 16.07.2016, 11:54
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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From the Guardian
Did not take long for Erdogan to fire Turkish Army chief, General Hulusi Akar and find a replacement (General Umit Dundar,); I guess the job interview was very short!

104 people described as “coup plotters.” were reported dead; but they were not described as soldiers?

Also from the Guardian "In total, 1,563 members of the armed forces have been arrested, among them 29 colonels and five generals. Rear Admiral Nejat Atilla Demirhan and General Memduh Hakbilen, the chief of staff of Turkey’s command for the Aegean region, are said to be among those detained."
Amazingly quick response by the Govt! Almost as if they knew who to arrest in advance
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Old 16.07.2016, 12:15
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Amazingly quick response by the Govt! Almost as if they knew who to arrest in advance
Do you think of these conspiracy theories all by yourself, or is there a special website to help you?

I don't find it at all surprising that the people in charge of telling other people to rebel against the state are easily identifiable after the event. It would be quite difficult to issue orders while hiding your identity from those you're giving the orders to, after all.
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Old 16.07.2016, 12:33
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Do you think of these conspiracy theories all by yourself, or is there a special website to help you?

I don't find it at all surprising that the people in charge of telling other people to rebel against the state are easily identifiable after the event. It would be quite difficult to issue orders while hiding your identity from those you're giving the orders to, after all.
Thanks but I do not need a web site.

I just find it impressive that the Govt. can identify and arrest over 1,500 people in a few hours compared to, for example, the Ankara October 2015 bombing where progress has been snail like.
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