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  #101  
Old 16.07.2016, 12:49
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Well I don´t think that the Turkish MIT (National Intelligence Organization) are sitting on their hands, they are quite competent.
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  #102  
Old 16.07.2016, 13:08
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Anyone shedding a tear over this attack on democracy, well we're about to see what Erdogan's take democracy looks like.

https://twitter.com/independent/stat...42887567769601
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  #103  
Old 16.07.2016, 13:20
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

I won't go into the various interpretations of how this weak coup was possibly staged. I was also shocked about the coup but the claim that democracy won at the end is wrong. This is what Erdogan supporters did to a hostage soldier on Istanbul's main bridge after his call from media for his supporters to go out into the street:
horrid picture, be warned (article in Turkish)

Some in this thread were trying to compare this coup attempt with Nice attacks. Probably they are right, look how the government supporters kill hostages; beheading.. does it sound familiar to anyone?
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  #104  
Old 16.07.2016, 13:31
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It takes a lot to shock me, but the apparent support for the coup attempt shown by quite a few members on this thread has done so.

To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.
There will always be people who enjoy a good car crash, just as long as it doesn't personally affect them.
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  #105  
Old 16.07.2016, 13:59
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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To my mind, there's little difference between this and the Nice truck driver, or the Northern Ireland 'troubles'.
If that is the state of your mind you need psychological help.
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  #106  
Old 16.07.2016, 14:02
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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There will always be people who enjoy a good car crash, just as long as it doesn't personally affect them.
And it takes far more than a few summer holidays or occasional airport stopovers to know a country
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  #107  
Old 16.07.2016, 15:17
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

Claims appearing that the govt. has laid off some 2745 judges. Presumably this is to preserve the rule of law.
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  #108  
Old 16.07.2016, 16:28
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Claims appearing that the govt. has laid off some 2745 judges. Presumably this is to preserve the rule of law.

It's good to have these lists compiled ready, for when you need them ;-)
I'm sure Erdogan has read Machiavelli, too.

As for being sorry that the coup failed....

In 1944, on June 20th, a coup by German Generals to kill Adolf Hitler with a bomb failed (because the meeting had been moved from a bunker to a wooden shed and the Führer stood at the opposing side of a very massive concrete table when the bomb went off). They considered the war to be lost and wanted to prevent the worst (they didn't even know about the Manhattan project...).
Was it a good thing that the democratically elected leader was spared of his fate at this time? After all, more German soldiers died after that fateful day in June before the end of the war than died in the almost five years up to that point.

My history teacher once quoted a historian, saying the Germans "...had to drink up the cup of hemlock". Else there'd have been conspiracy-theories abound just like after WW1.

So, Turkey, too, will now have to drink up their cup of hemlock.
They wanted Erdogan, now they got him and he's going to stay for a while.

We'll probably see parts of Syria and Irak being de-facto annexed by Turkey in the not-so-distant future.

Similarities to past events and characters in history are purely coincidental ;-)
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  #109  
Old 16.07.2016, 16:41
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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It's good to have these lists compiled ready, for when you need them ;-)
I'm sure Erdogan has read Machiavelli, too.

As for being sorry that the coup failed....

In 1944, on June 20th, a coup by German Generals to kill Adolf Hitler with a bomb failed (because the meeting had been moved from a bunker to a wooden shed and the Führer stood at the opposing side of a very massive concrete table when the bomb went off). They considered the war to be lost and wanted to prevent the worst (they didn't even know about the Manhattan project...).
Was it a good thing that the democratically elected leader was spared of his fate at this time? After all, more German soldiers died after that fateful day in June before the end of the war than died in the almost five years up to that point.

My history teacher once quoted a historian, saying the Germans "...had to drink up the cup of hemlock". Else there'd have been conspiracy-theories abound just like after WW1.

So, Turkey, too, will now have to drink up their cup of hemlock.
They wanted Erdogan, now they got him and he's going to stay for a while.

We'll probably see parts of Syria and Irak being de-facto annexed by Turkey in the not-so-distant future.

Similarities to past events and characters in history are purely coincidental ;-)
"It's good to have these lists compiled ready, for when you need them"

"We'll probably see parts of Syria .... annexed" Erdogan will have to become really good friends with Russia first!
Irak of course is anybodies
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  #110  
Old 16.07.2016, 16:55
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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"It's good to have these lists compiled ready, for when you need them"

"We'll probably see parts of Syria .... annexed" Erdogan will have to become really good friends with Russia first!
Irak of course is anybodies
Erdogan said today;
"This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

And as SemAms posted there are many reports and videos of Erdogan supporters attacking surrendering soldiers.
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  #111  
Old 16.07.2016, 17:20
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Erdogan said today;
"This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."

And as SemAms posted there are many reports and videos of Erdogan supporters attacking surrendering soldiers.
I can't shake this feeling of being a fake coup. That would be very much Erdogan.
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  #112  
Old 16.07.2016, 17:25
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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I can't shake this feeling of being a fake coup. That would be very much Erdogan.
The bombing of the parliament is a classic.

Right from the history books.
;-)
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  #113  
Old 16.07.2016, 18:25
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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I can't shake this feeling of being a fake coup. That would be very much Erdogan.
Would not go so far as to say "fake" but I could imagine he knew about the plan beforehand and had his responses ready.
The whole Govt. response seemed to be well planned and well oiled.

The senior politicians were tucked safely away from the action.

The Turkish military are usually good at their job but that was not demonstrated here.

According to the Wall St Journal here ; A Turkish military helicopter carrying eight supporters of the coup against President Recep Tayyip Erdogan landed in the Greek city of Alexandroupolis at noon local time on Saturday, several Greek officials said.

“They are military officers up to the level of major,” a senior Greek official said.

Odd that more senior officers who were involved did not get out of town; generals and such usually have easy access to helicopters.

Edit; there are reports that "Erdogan sent a mass text message to Turkish mobile phones on Saturday imploring Turks to "stand up" for democracy and peace." That is not so easy to organise when you are on holiday in some seaside spot
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  #114  
Old 16.07.2016, 18:31
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Would not go so far as to say "fake" but I could imagine he knew about the plan beforehand and had his responses ready.
The whole Govt. response seemed to be well planned and well oiled.
...
Odd that more senior officers who were involved did not get out of town; generals and such usually have easy access to helicopters.
One of the items on the reddit feed last night suggested that the coup had been moved forward in time because it had been uncovered.
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  #115  
Old 16.07.2016, 18:53
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

It seems with the widespread suppression of the judicial system that the time is right for the USA to withdraw its nuclear weapons from Turkey. We all know the way this is heading.

http://www.dw.com/en/us-turkeys-inci...cut/a-19404844
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  #116  
Old 16.07.2016, 18:57
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Do you think of these conspiracy theories all by yourself, or is there a special website to help you?

I don't find it at all surprising that the people in charge of telling other people to rebel against the state are easily identifiable after the event. It would be quite difficult to issue orders while hiding your identity from those you're giving the orders to, after all.
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I can't shake this feeling of being a fake coup. That would be very much Erdogan.
Swiss TV-journalist in Tagesschau today brought up the question about the rumour that this was all staged by Erdogan. Knowing the successful history of putsches in the past of Turkey made me wonder last night why there was such a little group of the military in action, no opposition civilians in the streets it seemed (I mentioned that last night). Wonder if we'll ever know ....

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Claims appearing that the govt. has laid off some 2745 judges. Presumably this is to preserve the rule of law.
How very convenient as <<Das türkische Parlament hatte erst kürzlich für eine umstrittene Justizreform gestimmt, die zwei der höchsten Gerichte des Landes betrifft. Kritiker werfen Staatspräsident Erdogan vor, die Justiz immer weiter unter seine Kontrolle bringen zu wollen.>> source

Why would so many judges be laid off now that they're needed?! What did they have to do with the events last night? A friend who was active in the putsch 1960 told me this morning not to look for logic ......
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  #117  
Old 16.07.2016, 19:35
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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Swiss TV-journalist in Tagesschau today brought up the question about the rumour that this was all staged by Erdogan. Knowing the successful history of putsches in the past of Turkey made me wonder last night why there was such a little group of the military in action, no opposition civilians in the streets it seemed (I mentioned that last night). Wonder if we'll ever know ....
A putsche is almost impossible to control once it gains momentum. He could have staged it, but what would have happened if the rest of the armed forces would have joined in, together with the public?

That is certainly what the plotters were probably hoping for, but instead they miscalculated and the whole thing fizzled out. So I don't think it was staged, because the risk of it blowing out of control would have been too great, especially given his dip in the popularity ratings.

You only play a move like that when you have a strong hand.
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  #118  
Old 16.07.2016, 19:43
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

That's the definite end of Kemalism and Turkey will be in no time an islamic state of some kind. Erdogan is the last democratically elected president of Turkey. What will be called "elections" from now on will be something different. We'll see what exactly when it comes. Nothing one can do now.
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  #119  
Old 16.07.2016, 20:01
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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A putsche is almost impossible to control once it gains momentum. He could have staged it, but what would have happened if the rest of the armed forces would have joined in, together with the public?

That is certainly what the plotters were probably hoping for, but instead they miscalculated and the whole thing fizzled out. So I don't think it was staged, because the risk of it blowing out of control would have been too great, especially given his dip in the popularity ratings.

You only play a move like that when you have a strong hand.
BREXIT for example
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  #120  
Old 16.07.2016, 20:01
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Re: What is happening in Turkey tonight?

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A putsche is almost impossible to control once it gains momentum. He could have staged it, but what would have happened if the rest of the armed forces would have joined in, together with the public?

That is certainly what the plotters were probably hoping for, but instead they miscalculated and the whole thing fizzled out. So I don't think it was staged, because the risk of it blowing out of control would have been too great, especially given his dip in the popularity ratings.

You only play a move like that when you have a strong hand.
Unless he knew already something was in preparation from a small faction. Since he amputated most of the army, he knew he was going to have them on his side.

The response is too soon, too fast, too well prepared for being just action/reaction.
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