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  #121  
Old 20.07.2016, 19:45
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Re: Islamic Terrorism.

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Exaggerating again! The thread will grow linearly if there is one or any other constant number of posts per day. Please try to think clearly .
Only if people conclude a line of thought, which never happens here. EVERYBODY always has to have the last word.
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  #122  
Old 20.07.2016, 19:50
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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But after hours of investigation, Brussels police said the man was not a threat -- but rather a student researching radioactivity in the city.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/20/eu...ity-operation/

It took hours to figure it out?
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  #123  
Old 20.07.2016, 19:52
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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Belgium is kinda bilingual......
Trilingual, actually (I even know someone from the German-speaking part).

Tom
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  #124  
Old 20.07.2016, 20:00
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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Why would this confuse you?

20 minutes to stop shouting "Lay down, don't move" and ask what his name is while the area is being locked down.

The rest of the time doing a complete background check, talk to his profs, interpol, the US etc.

Once anyone read "Nuclear Physics" they call out a hazmat testing team, and double check the route he took, and the surrounding area.

Not to mention the time it would take to check the rest of the cities soft spots to make sure that it isn't a diversion.
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  #125  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:22
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Couldn't agree more. But as long as the vote is swung by who disses whom better, or doesn't advance my pet agenda then we as a group get what we deserve.

I've said it before: We are all responsible for which lies we choose to believe.
I thought about this, and decided I don't really subscribe to this. Although it sounds like it has a tinge of platonism, I think this sentiment is somewhat anti-human. Its just an obliteration of the human mind.

I believe such lies cost time, energy and effort to maintain, and they eventually tumble down. It might buy a momentary respite, but it is ultimately weak and counter-productive. I'm convinced more objective truth still has higher use and values than such lies. Such lies only hurt and affect those who believe in them.
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  #126  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:25
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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Politie is flemish/dutch
Police is french

Belgium is kinda bilingual...... tho' I learnt the hard way too in 1986 that the flemish don't like it when you speak french to them.....that deep was the rift then....
Or even worse, speak dutch to a french speaking person..............
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  #127  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:38
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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I thought about this, and decided I don't really subscribe to this. Although it sounds like it has a tinge of platonism, I think this sentiment is somewhat anti-human. Its just an obliteration of the human mind.

I believe such lies cost time, energy and effort to maintain, and they eventually tumble down. It might buy a momentary respite, but it is ultimately weak and counter-productive. I'm convinced more objective truth still has higher use and values than such lies. Such lies only hurt and affect those who believe in them.

So, the lies that some particular politician tells about security, or economics don't affect the people who see through them? The BREXIT remainers who could see the number on the bus was a lie won't be affected negatively by those lies?

I may be understanding what you wrote differently from what you intended to say.
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  #128  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:45
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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So, the lies that some particular politician tells about security, or economics don't affect the people who see through them? The BREXIT remainers who could see the number on the bus was a lie won't be affected negatively by those lies?

I may be understanding what you wrote differently from what you intended to say.
No, lies will certainly affect circumstances around those who believe them. What I'm saying is that it doesn't affect the minds of those who don't believe them.

I don't really buy the Brexit lie story, and how people thought they were voting for NHS funding. Those were points and counterpoints in the course of debating Brexit. Furthermore, none of those who proposed the NHS scenario were even in the position of deciding such funding. If anyone should claim they were voting for NHS funding, and not Brexit, I'd say that was not a matter of being lied to, rather more like a self-lie, or a bit of stupidity.
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  #129  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:53
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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No, lies will certainly affect circumstances around those who believe them. What I'm saying is that it doesn't affect the minds of those who don't believe them.

I don't really buy the Brexit lie story, and how people thought they were voting for NHS funding. Those were points and counterpoints in the course debating Brexit. Furthermore, none of those who proposed the NHS scenario were even in the position of deciding such funding. If anyone should claim they were voting for NHS funding, and not Brexit, I'd say that was not a matter of believing a lie, rather more like a self-lie, or a bit of stupidity.
A self lie is also a lie.

So has there ever been a case of a politician winning an election by saying "We're in a hard spot, and to get out of it I'm going to have to increase taxes by 1% across the board"?

I think we can agree that many have been elected by saying "I'm going to get us out of this by taxing the other guys, you know, the bad ones."
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  #130  
Old 20.07.2016, 21:56
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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A self lie is also a lie.

So has there ever been a case of a politician winning an election by saying "We're in a hard spot, and to get out of it I'm going to have to increase taxes by 1% across the board"?

I think we can agree that many have been elected by saying "I'm going to get us out of this by taxing the other guys, you know, the bad ones."
I can see that for a politician, which happens all the time. But this was a referendum about something completely different. And the spokespersons who made such claims weren't in the position to make good on such ideas.
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  #131  
Old 20.07.2016, 22:07
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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I can see that for a politician, which happens all the time. But this was a referendum about something completely different. And the spokespersons who made such claims weren't in the position to make good on such ideas.
But wasn't the response of a large part of the public immediately after the referendum that they felt they had been misled?

When Kohl told the nation that they were going to take over and completely modernise one of the poorest nations on the face of the earth and it wasn't going to cost anyone anything, both sides shouted "Yay".

Sometimes "doing the right thing" doesn't turn out to be to everyone's advantage, but nobody wants to hear that.
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  #132  
Old 21.07.2016, 05:37
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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But wasn't the response of a large part of the public immediately after the referendum that they felt they had been misled?

When Kohl told the nation that they were going to take over and completely modernise one of the poorest nations on the face of the earth and it wasn't going to cost anyone anything, both sides shouted "Yay".

Sometimes "doing the right thing" doesn't turn out to be to everyone's advantage, but nobody wants to hear that.

the GDR/DDR was NOT a poor Nation but the richest one of the COMECON
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  #133  
Old 21.07.2016, 06:18
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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the GDR/DDR was NOT a poor Nation but the richest one of the COMECON
Still, a lot of money had to be spent on getting that state up to standard...... a lot of money!
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  #134  
Old 21.07.2016, 07:49
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Correct. I find this graph quite useful as well. Seems something happened early 2000's that 'stirred the pot'.. what was that now?
The West's support of Saddam and the two Gulf Wars.
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  #135  
Old 21.07.2016, 08:07
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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the GDR/DDR was NOT a poor Nation but the richest one of the COMECON
Within the COMECON they may have been "wealthy".

Compared to West Germany they were poor as dirt. Much of the infrastructure was crumbling.

I suspect you are missing the point.
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  #136  
Old 21.07.2016, 09:36
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Within the COMECON they may have been "wealthy".



Compared to West Germany they were poor as dirt. Much of the infrastructure was crumbling.



I suspect you are missing the point.
Don't underestimate the human capital. It was an externally oppressed population that could not develop at its full potential.
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  #137  
Old 21.07.2016, 09:46
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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But wasn't the response of a large part of the public immediately after the referendum that they felt they had been misled?
I think the bigger lie people believed was that the UK would collapse into isolation should it vote for Brexit, hence the mass hysteria and shock after the results. In a few months time, they may even realise Brexit is a great idea afterall, and could survive a second referendum.

The UK places too much value on acrimonious whinging. The more victimised you can make yourself appear and the louder you can moan, the more legitimate your claim appears. That is a downward spiral.
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  #138  
Old 21.07.2016, 09:56
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Re: An Islamic Terrorist Attack just Happened in (*Fill in the Blank*)

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Don't underestimate the human capital. It was an externally oppressed population that could not develop at its full potential.
I make no reference to the human capital. The point I was making to Phos was about political lies. I could find another example if mentioning East Germany bothers people that much.

I did not claim anything to be the case with respect to East Germany. My claim was that Kohl did. If you want to take issue with that, please do so, otherwise the objections to what East Germany was, or was not, are at best "any port in a storm" objections.
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  #139  
Old 21.07.2016, 10:04
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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How is what I said an example of anything? You are basically calling for the end of all Muslims travelling into Europe, and tighter restrictions or kicking Muslims out? I don't see your attitude as anything other then xenophobic or Trumpish. Actually I don't think it's immigration you are worried about. This thread itself is inciteful enough, but when the bigots get on and rant about their percieved causes of these dreadful incidents it's efing tragic!
This attacker came into Germany and may have lied about his nationality, age and name. A good start don't you think? He was given temporary asylum status, housing, welfare benefits, language lessons, a foster family and an apprenticeship position. And then he went onto a train and started swinging axe at people.

There's no way of knowing if he had a legitimate case for asylum, yet Germany let him in, no questions asked. Now multiply this by hundreds of thousands and you get the picture.

I'm not saying Muslim migrants can't come to Europe, they are welcome to come, just send a CV first. Like the Swiss model. They mustn't expect any special treatment on account of their religion. And finally, they should fit in, or fü¢k off.
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  #140  
Old 21.07.2016, 10:17
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Re: Esto's great big thread for Discussion of Islamic Terrorism.

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...He was given temporary asylum status...

There's no way of knowing if he had a legitimate case for asylum, yet Germany let him in, no questions asked...
Not exactly. The temporary asylum status means questions were being asked - to see whether he could get permanent asylum status or be sent back.
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