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View Poll Results: What should the Swiss government do in your opinion?
They should go ahead with introducing permit applications and quotas for EEA citizens 27 35.06%
They should introduce very high quotas for EEA nationals that in practice won't have any impact 13 16.88%
They should call for a new referendum on the EU-Swiss relationsip as a whole 18 23.38%
They should ignore 2014's referendum and not do anything 7 9.09%
I don't care, I got my C-permit or citizenship 12 15.58%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 26.07.2016, 01:32
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Leaving the EU and joining the EEA is still leaving the EU.
Yes but you still have all the rules, regulations, financial contributions to the EU, and a higher court to overule national courts
but you do lose your place and veto at the EU table where they vote on new rules and changes that impact you
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  #82  
Old 26.07.2016, 01:38
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I couldn't figure out if this 7 year idea was in lieu of Brexit, or for a post Brexit deal. In either case, I think the EU will further soften on FMOP. Ultimately, Brexit is about taking back control of the UK, and especially its courts.
It is called "realpolitik".
So far it looks like the best and most risk free option for the UK; of course, UK is not obliged to take it.
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  #83  
Old 26.07.2016, 15:22
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Many thanks for your reply.

Personally, I'd rather a buoyant economy here in Zurich than any preservation of the "Swiss way of life". Buoyant economies typically have open borders and are host to diverse nationalities, some of whom are just there for the cash. To be perfectly honest, if Zurich regressed to the "Swiss way of life" I'd run to the hills. I can't think of anything worse. Hmm, running to the hills would be 100% the wrong direction because that is where the Swiss way of life is strongest. Anyway, you know what I mean.
With a foreigner-precentage of 24.3% (2015) what are you talking about?! (Not to mention all the naturalized, colorful Swiss). GB had 6.6% in 2011 .... didn't find newer numers but I doubt it's 24.3 yet?
Zurich was always buoyant and colorful - okay with the amount of Germans there at the moment it must have lost colors a bit. But the Swiss way of life the way you seem to see it doesn't excist, except maybe in the mountains or Appenzell.
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  #84  
Old 27.07.2016, 20:19
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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With a foreigner-precentage of 24.3% (2015) what are you talking about?! (Not to mention all the naturalized, colorful Swiss). GB had 6.6% in 2011 .... didn't find newer numers but I doubt it's 24.3 yet?
Zurich was always buoyant and colorful - okay with the amount of Germans there at the moment it must have lost colors a bit. But the Swiss way of life the way you seem to see it doesn't excist, except maybe in the mountains or Appenzell.
I don't see any "Swiss way of life" where I live in Zurich and have no desire for it to return, if it existed here at all. That's why I said I would run to the hills if Zurich regressed to the "Swiss way of life" and then pointed out that the hills, such as Appenzell, still have something like the "Swiss way of life". Ha ha ha ha ha, I'd need to run in the opposite direction, ha ha ha ha ha. I'd say that everything I said is in agreement with everything you just said. Did you reply to the wrong post? No worries, if you did.
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  #85  
Old 07.08.2016, 13:07
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Slightly relevant (20 minutes, so apologies for the journalistic quality):
L'UDC dit non à l'accord-cadre Suisse-UE
(UDC says not to the framework agreement with the EU)

My question is: what new framework agreement is this? The article mentions some new bilaterals being discussed. I did not even know there were discussions about more bilaterals.
I googled a bit and I couldn't find anything.
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  #86  
Old 07.08.2016, 13:41
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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My question is: what new framework agreement is this?
I googled a bit and I couldn't find anything.
Simplified answer: following the evolutions of EU law and regulations in order for Switzerland not to loose access to the single market de facto when the regulations stated in the bilaterals do not correspond anymore. But the actual answer is more complex.

My google hunt might help a little (in French):
http://www.horizons-et-debats.ch/ind...t=1&no_cache=1
https://www.parlament.ch/fr/ratsbetr...airId=20135428
https://www.unige.ch/gsi/files/6914/...spiarovich.pdf

Last edited by Faltrad; 07.08.2016 at 13:58.
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  #87  
Old 08.08.2016, 09:32
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Simplified answer: following the evolutions of EU law and regulations in order for Switzerland not to loose access to the single market de facto when the regulations stated in the bilaterals do not correspond anymore. But the actual answer is more complex.

My google hunt might help a little (in French):
http://www.horizons-et-debats.ch/ind...t=1&no_cache=1
https://www.parlament.ch/fr/ratsbetr...airId=20135428
https://www.unige.ch/gsi/files/6914/...spiarovich.pdf
Interesting, thanks.
I only searched in English for new biletarals and the existing bilaterals were dominating the results. There is this in English though: http://www.euractiv.com/section/glob...ral-relations/

Last edited by lewton; 08.08.2016 at 09:48.
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  #88  
Old 08.08.2016, 12:17
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The UK has consistently failed to apply the measures already in place to handle situations where an EU national would be come a burden on the state and furthermore have failed to provide a meaningful explanation as to why they are unwilling to do so. Let them start by applying the current rules and see how it goes.
That's one thing I haven't understood either.
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  #89  
Old 08.08.2016, 12:35
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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With a foreigner-precentage of 24.3% (2015) what are you talking about?! (Not to mention all the naturalized, colorful Swiss). GB had 6.6% in 2011 .... didn't find newer numers but I doubt it's 24.3 yet?
Zurich was always buoyant and colorful - okay with the amount of Germans there at the moment it must have lost colors a bit. But the Swiss way of life the way you seem to see it doesn't excist, except maybe in the mountains or Appenzell.
Ok, let's just be for a second honest about those numbers: The vast majority of foreigners in Switzerland are German, Austrian, French, Italian and from the Balkans. The first four integrate so easily that only the "Yugos" are even visible as foreign population. And while the Swiss might have their issues with immigration from the Balkans: Let's be honest again and agree that overall there might be some cultural differences and minor issues in every day life - but that's a very long way from the Muslim neighbourhoods I have seen in London in the last two years. I went there because I like it. I like international food and I really felt that I was stepping into a different world in some parts of London. I see how some right winged xenophobe might not like it... it's pretty extreme...


So: While the overall number of foreigners might be much less (which I kind of doubt as it is much easier to get a UK passport and fall out of the statistic): The foreigners who went to the UK from a lot of former colonies, most notably Pakistan, are much more visible and "foreign" compared to the foreign population of Switzerland.


Yes, there were some ugly cases of discrimination against Polish in the UK, but let's be honest one last time: Many people did not vote for Brexit to get the Italian guy out making Pizzas. They fell for the argument that leaving the EU would give the UK "control" back and then they could kick out those other people... which has nothing to do with reality. But reality is not the strong point of UKIP or it's voters...
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  #90  
Old 08.08.2016, 12:40
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Ok, let's just be for a second honest about those numbers: The vast majority of foreigners in Switzerland are German, Austrian, French, Italian and from the Balkans. The first four integrate so easily that only the "Yugos" are even visible as foreign population. And while the Swiss might have their issues with immigration from the Balkans: Let's be honest again and agree that overall there might be some cultural differences and minor issues in every day life - but that's a very long way from the Muslim neighbourhoods I have seen in London in the last two years. I went there because I like it. I like international food and I really felt that I was stepping into a different world in some parts of London. I see how some right winged xenophobe might not like it... it's pretty extreme...


So: While the overall number of foreigners might be much less (which I kind of doubt as it is much easier to get a UK passport and fall out of the statistic): The foreigners who went to the UK from a lot of former colonies, most notably Pakistan, are much more visible and "foreign" compared to the foreign population of Switzerland.


Yes, there were some ugly cases of discrimination against Polish in the UK, but let's be honest one last time: Many people did not vote for Brexit to get the Italian guy out making Pizzas. They fell for the argument that leaving the EU would give the UK "control" back and then they could kick out those other people... which has nothing to do with reality. But reality is not the strong point of UKIP or it's voters...
Any plans to run for the Bundesrat, Treverus?
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  #91  
Old 08.08.2016, 12:45
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Any plans to run for the Bundesrat, Treverus?
I am way too honest to go into politics. I found that out at 18 when I was the youngest member of my city council and decided I won't lie about construction projects... national politics is even worse in every aspect imaginable.


If I was not as lazy as I am, I could instead write some blog or something as I usually get pretty close to the truth when I have my most sarcastic moments...
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Old 08.08.2016, 12:55
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Do you know exactly what will change for EU nationals with this change in the legislation? I am a bit confused about it.
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  #93  
Old 08.08.2016, 19:06
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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Any plans to run for the Bundesrat, Treverus?
At least he'd see Bern as well besides only Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich.
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  #94  
Old 08.08.2016, 21:35
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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At least he'd see Bern as well besides only Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich.
I've worked in Bern for years. Liked it so much that I commuted from Zürich...
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  #95  
Old 16.12.2016, 15:37
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

A slap in the face of the SVP.

Freedom of Movement will remain, but Swiss residents will get priority in times of high unemployment.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38340407
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  #96  
Old 16.12.2016, 15:45
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

Not necessarily.

"People’s Party cries foul

Members of the conservative right Swiss People’s Party, which had proposed the February 2014 referendum on quotas, argued up until the final vote that the latest parliamentary proposal violates the Constitution because it does not contain quotas and therefore fails to apply the will of the people.

The People’s Party has said that if cabinet does not intervene by February 9 with a version of the law conforming to the 2014 initiative, it will launch a new initiative “as soon as possible” to dissolve the bilateral accord with the European Union concerning the free movement of people."

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-immi...urdle/42769316
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Old 16.12.2016, 15:50
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

I am a bit amused, because the usual people demanding that frontiers are closed to all migrants, are those SVP farmers living in the countryside, exactly where there is a shortage of doctors, and exactly where no foreign doctor would choose to work.
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  #98  
Old 16.12.2016, 15:58
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I am a bit amused, because the usual people demanding that frontiers are closed to all migrants, are those SVP farmers living in the countryside, exactly where there is a shortage of doctors, and exactly where no foreign doctor would choose to work.
Probably they would hate to have a foreign doctor too.
The world is getting quite complicated and not everybody can accept/embrace the changes*. In France, they had to (one of my oldest friends is working in a French village and people are super nice to her but it wasn't always like this)
*older people less than anyone else
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Old 16.12.2016, 16:00
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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I am a bit amused, because the usual people demanding that frontiers are closed to all migrants, are those SVP farmers living in the countryside, exactly where there is a shortage of doctors, and exactly where no foreign doctor would choose to work.
And Ticino, who voted 67% in favor, and also recently voted for limits on frontalieri with a large majority (58%).

Tom
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  #100  
Old 16.12.2016, 16:14
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Re: Freedom of Movement for EU nationals: should the Swiss bend the knee?

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The People’s Party has said that if cabinet does not intervene by February 9 with a version of the law conforming to the 2014 initiative, it will launch a new initiative “as soon as possible” to dissolve the bilateral accord with the European Union concerning the free movement of people."
Again the same little game - just this one bilateral.... except this time the game is known.
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