Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 25.07.2016, 19:49
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,662
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,789 Times in 2,131 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
This is actually a Marxist concept. Marxists often talk about the inner enemy or the class enemy, with one group of people, usually the rich and succesful being defined as a separate class and blamed for the problems of the others and in extreme cases, being perseucted for them. Hitler didn't rant that Jews were sponging benefeits but he did rant that they had too much money, too much power and all the good jobs. He was thus appealing to people by stoking their jealousy, an old Marxist trick.

If you point that out to people making the comparison they say, "well, it's the same thing"

Thus objectively they're saying the facts don't matter but it's the same thing anyway.

Now if they were to talk about persecution of Gypies, for example, there might be a different set of evidence. But somehow they don't.
France, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, the UK etc.
Rightwing Politics or Rightwing populists are now mainstream again and what is scary is that the Population of Europe is ok with this trend. The next one will be Trump in the US methinks.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 25.07.2016, 19:56
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
France, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, the UK etc.
Rightwing Politics or Rightwing populists are now mainstream again and what is scary is that the Population of Europe is ok with this trend. The next one will be Trump in the US methinks.
There is nothing wrong with right wing politics. It is what happens when left wing politics screws everything up. What we want to avoid is extreme right wing dictatorships, which is nowhere near the horizon. Unless the left wing maintains its hold on issues, and continue to drag it further left. In which case, when it swings to the right, it will swing at least to the same degree of extremism as the left has taken it.

If they really want to manage this, they need to start acting responsibly instead of simply marginalising everybody that is pointing out faults in their agenda.

Left wing dictatorship is a LOT more scary and dangerous than Right wing dictatorship. We're seeing some of it already in the form of opinion collectivism.
__________________
exceptio probat regulam
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
This user groans at Phos for this post:
  #23  
Old 25.07.2016, 20:33
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,484
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

My simple view is this:

- While things are going well, people generally get on OK
- When things go badly, then people look after themselves and look for someone to scapegoat
- Europe and the world is still in financial crisis
- Many are losers due to globalisation and have seen their standard of living fall
- We are now in a time where things are not going great and people are worried
- In this setting, people are reverting back to 'tribal mode'

It's also the reason why I don't think the EU will work. While I agree that creating an EU super-state where everybody is equal and the same can be considered a laudable goal, I don't think it is realistic.

Our societies are not at the state where we accept everyone as 'us'. Rather, it is 'us' and 'them'. I suspect this runs deep in our beings.

There are plenty of examples where countries with separate groups manage to live together for a while, but things turn bloody when things get tough.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 25.07.2016, 20:54
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

I think some people are simply applying objective critical thinking, which is part of human nature, but are being called out as racist hatemongers for it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 25.07.2016, 20:56
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 385
Groaned at 88 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 947 Times in 445 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Exactly - "right-wing" is such an abused term... I prefer to incentivise good behaviour and good economic choices and disincentivise bad ones - both for individuals and society - if you have the patience to watch this entire video Friedman explains exactly what has gone wrong with the welfare society of France and also why the "Wilkommenskultur" pertaining to the migrants is already leading in disaster :

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 25.07.2016, 21:08
manwithnoname's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 471
Groaned at 53 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 960 Times in 372 Posts
manwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
My simple view is this:

- While things are going well, people generally get on OK
- When things go badly, then people look after themselves and look for someone to scapegoat
- Europe and the world is still in financial crisis
- Many are losers due to globalisation and have seen their standard of living fall
- We are now in a time where things are not going great and people are worried
- In this setting, people are reverting back to 'tribal mode'

It's also the reason why I don't think the EU will work. While I agree that creating an EU super-state where everybody is equal and the same can be considered a laudable goal, I don't think it is realistic.

Our societies are not at the state where we accept everyone as 'us'. Rather, it is 'us' and 'them'. I suspect this runs deep in our beings.

There are plenty of examples where countries with separate groups manage to live together for a while, but things turn bloody when things get tough.
i dont think you have to involve economic crisis and globalization.

new neighbor moving in:

A) can we be friends?
if yes -> great!
if no -> why not? -> no common ground -> go to B

B) can i ignore him as much as i want?
if yes -> fine.
if no -> why not? -> constant loud music despite asking to stop ->
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 25.07.2016, 21:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,116
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,076 Times in 3,284 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
i dont think you have to involve economic crisis and globalization.

new neighbor moving in:

A) can we be friends?
if yes -> great!
if no -> why not? -> no common ground -> go to B

B) can i ignore him as much as i want?
if yes -> fine.
if no -> why not? -> constant loud music despite asking to stop ->
You assume everybody is reasonable and when they act like assholes they actually have a reason...you cannot be more wrong, my friend.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 25.07.2016, 21:41
manwithnoname's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 471
Groaned at 53 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 960 Times in 372 Posts
manwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
You assume everybody is reasonable and when they act like assholes they actually have a reason...you cannot be more wrong, my friend.
point im trying to make is that everybody can get along as long as they are not negatively affected by the other. simple as that. works on micro meso and macro scale.

edit: maybe its too much of an open door lol
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank manwithnoname for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 25.07.2016, 22:21
moggy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Thurgau (& London, UK)
Posts: 1,488
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 768 Times in 511 Posts
moggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Exactly.

My home town, historically, has a very low level of immigrants. Even now, anyone from a different race of ethnic background to the locals, will tend to be 2nd or 3rd generation British people with professional careers.


That said, I spent two weeks in the UK in the run up to Brexit and hated it. The sheer venom in the air was sickening, and being a gobby mare, I gave more than a few people short shrift when they started banging on about 'all the immigrants'. If you live in the South East, I get it. I can see there is a massive problem with infrastructure, etc, but in my home town?!!! My stock answer was...

"If you had the level of foreign workers that Zurich has, then you'd have something to moan about!"


Therein lies the crux of the problem. True bigots don't define the difference between your highly qualified engineer friends, someone who has country hopped looking for a better life, and someone who is a genuine refugee. They just lump everyone in the 'you're different' pot.
Have you suffered from racism or sexism in your home country?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 25.07.2016, 22:38
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,793
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,063 Times in 926 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Why? Did he live next door to you?
Fortunately not - then I would have left sooner
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 25.07.2016, 22:49
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,832
Groaned at 20 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 6,093 Times in 1,907 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

I could run all around the world escaping racism and sexism. Eventually I'd come to a point where I'd have to say " this is the place that I can live with this racism and this sexism".

I am afraid for our immediate futures and at the same time I know unless I'm an exceptional person there seems very little I can do. I think every generation has thought the world is a worse place for their children.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 25.07.2016, 23:51
curley's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 629
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 649 Times in 361 Posts
curley has an excellent reputationcurley has an excellent reputationcurley has an excellent reputationcurley has an excellent reputation
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Exactly - "right-wing" is such an abused term... I prefer to incentivise good behaviour and good economic choices and disincentivise bad ones - both for individuals and society - if you have the patience to watch this entire video Friedman explains exactly what has gone wrong with the welfare society of France and also why the "Wilkommenskultur" pertaining to the migrants is already leading in disaster :

This is a very good video and applies for Switzerland too. But it should be in the thread about basic-income
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 26.07.2016, 00:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 983
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 2,561 Times in 1,167 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Have you suffered from racism or sexism in your home country?
I've had people try to be sexist and fail. I'm zero tolerence when it comes to bigotry and tackle it head on the moment i hear it, and I heard it a lot in May and June.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 26.07.2016, 08:30
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,989
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,271 Times in 5,015 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

On a UK forum I frequent there are some posters who are decidedly racist. While not posting openly racist stuff (that wouldn't be tolerated), they have become considerably more noisy since the referendum. It does seem like they feel their attitudes have been legitimised to some extent.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 26.07.2016, 10:39
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Exactly - "right-wing" is such an abused term... I prefer to incentivise good behaviour and good economic choices and disincentivise bad ones - both for individuals and society - if you have the patience to watch this entire video Friedman explains exactly what has gone wrong with the welfare society of France and also why the "Wilkommenskultur" pertaining to the migrants is already leading in disaster :
It looks like a debilitating system.

How is it that the "right wing" gets associated with racism when it is actually the "left wing" that appears to be obsessed with the concept? The whole idea of grouping people into classes, let alone by race, is the basis of Marxist thought. I think right wingers are typically more individualistic than that, and therefore contradict racism.

I think this is another one of those Newspeak ironies the world is awash in these days. Doubleplusgood!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 26.07.2016, 10:49
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,296
Groaned at 107 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 14,216 Times in 5,024 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Let's not forget, Hitler was the leader of the National Socialist German Worker's Party; racism and nationalism aren't exclusive to the right wing .
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 26.07.2016, 10:49
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,411
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 6,217 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
It looks like a debilitating system.

How is it that the "right wing" gets associated with racism when it is actually the "left wing" that appears to be obsessed with the concept? The whole idea of grouping people into classes, let alone by race, is the basis of Marxist thought. I think right wingers are typically more individualistic than that, and therefore contradict racism.

I think this is another one of those Newspeak ironies the world is awash in these days. Doubleplusgood!
There is a theory in psychology that people always seek to recognize in the other the greatest faults of their own character.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 26.07.2016, 10:50
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 385
Groaned at 88 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 947 Times in 445 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
This is a very good video and applies for Switzerland too. But it should be in the thread about basic-income
Thanks - I agree it also applies to Switzerland - but as the topic of this thread is about racism I think it equally belongs here :
  • "Refugees" (of different races) are moving to Switzerland & the wealthier parts of the EU to take advantage of generous welfare states
  • Since they are moving through multiple safe countries they are not refugees at all - they are welfare migrants
  • The fault lies with those people themselves who are fraudsters but also with the politicians who permit and often encourage wholesale fraud
  • The correct argument has nothing to do with race - that is intellectual laziness - it has to do with economics
  • Friedman was Jewish himself and the child of recent immigrants to the US - he has equally tough but fair things to say about immigrating communities i.e. the State should not intervene or support them
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 26.07.2016, 10:57
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,662
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,789 Times in 2,131 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
Let's not forget, Hitler was the leader of the National Socialist German Worker's Party; racism and nationalism aren't exclusive to the right wing .
Nothing wrong with national socialism, only this one had social darwinism as a root.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 26.07.2016, 11:00
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,411
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 6,217 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Quote:
View Post
[*]The correct argument has nothing to do with race - that is intellectual laziness - it has to do with economics
It has to do with both.

Of coutse not race as a genetic concept. That is pretty much irrelevant in real world situations.

But race when it used to signify tribalism, and people of different colours can feel joined together as a tribe.

People within such a tribe have mutual solidarity and typically wouldn't steal from other members of the tribe. Generous social systems work in places like Scandinavia where people have high ethics and only make recourse to the safety net when in genuine need. But the more that solidarity is broken down, the more social security just becomes an anonymous faceless system that everybody is stealing from so you'd be stupid not to.

And one of the big problems modern societies have is the breakdown of this solidarity. There are many contributing factors to this, including distrust between the generations, corruption in governments and business, high profile individuals not doing their part and many other issues. But not least among the problems are parallel societies with little solidarity for one another.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this racism? ElggDK Swiss politics/news 138 19.08.2015 12:03
what language do swiss people hate speaking more, high german or english thekilla Daily life 1 24.02.2014 01:18
How should i call this? Racism? hate? u name it... ch16 Daily life 63 23.04.2012 19:13
What is Acceptable swans1984 Forum support 58 13.04.2011 18:46
Is This Salary Offer Acceptable??? Luyimari Employment 15 23.05.2007 09:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0