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Old 25.07.2016, 13:57
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is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Just in the past few months I've noticed its become almost acceptable to be openly racist / xenophobic, even more so since brexit, my facebook stream is filled by people posting and reposting some quite disturbing things, for people who (I thought) would never have normally been this way.

The tone on here has also noticeably deteriorated in the past 12 months, reading expats berated people for wanting to come here is frankly bizarre, not to mention hypocritical.

Have we learnt nothing from history?
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Old 25.07.2016, 14:12
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Just in the past few months I've noticed its become almost acceptable to be openly racist / xenophobic, even more so since brexit, my facebook stream is filled by people posting and reposting some quite disturbing things, for people who (I thought) would never have normally been this way.

The tone on here has also noticeably deteriorated in the past 12 months, reading expats berated people for wanting to come here is frankly bizarre, not to mention hypocritical.

Have we learnt nothing from history?
Goalposts have shifted drastically in recent years about what is and isn't "acceptable" to say. Perfectly reasonable concerns over migration, multiculturalism etc. also get dismissed far too easily as racist or xenophobic views. The more the press, SJWs and the like try to silence people, the louder they get. And more angry. That simple.
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Old 25.07.2016, 14:18
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Na, not really, methinks it seems to be business as usual, have a look at some of Bernhard Manning´s jokes on youtube. Perfectly mainstream and normal for the times, it is just that you are too used to a PC world and as soon as things go to cock we revert back to our normal, tribal, hating-the-monkeys-in-the-other-tree homophobic, Misogynist, racist, male chauvinist pigs. I would go so far as to say it is a survival instinct that has been hardwired into our brains since the ice ages. Ok so you put on a veneer of 21st century blandness but peel it off and underneath you get the wild man.
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Old 25.07.2016, 14:21
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Goalposts have shifted drastically in recent years about what is and isn't "acceptable" to say. Perfectly reasonable concerns over migration, multiculturalism etc. also get dismissed far too easily as racist or xenophobic views. The more the press, SJWs and the like try to silence people, the louder they get. And more angry. That simple.
I agree. It seems increasingly so that it is more expedient to label or expose a particular person as wholly unbelievable, rather than to understand and respond to what they actually say.

"like" or "dislike", "thank" or "groan" buttons may play a role, in the sense that they present a binary decision (not to mention the schoolyard "friends" effect).

I think the trend started not long after CNN appeared, this may just be a coincidence.
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Old 25.07.2016, 14:23
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Na, not really, methinks it seems to be business as usual, have a look at some of Bernhard Manning´s jokes on youtube. Perfectly mainstream and normal for the times, it is just that you are too used to a PC world and as soon as things go to cock we revert back to our normal, tribal, hating-the-monkeys-in-the-other-tree homophobic, Misogynist, racist, male chauvinist pigs. I would go so far as to say it is a survival instinct that has been hardwired into our brains since the ice ages. Ok so you put on a veneer of 21st century blandness but peel it off and underneath you get the wild man.
but not people like bigblue2!! they are enlightened and morally superior beings (that put a godwin in the opening post in a thread asking "innocently" if racism is becoming more rampant but already having concluded that anyway)
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Old 25.07.2016, 14:51
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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but not people like bigblue2!! they are enlightened and morally superior beings (that put a godwin in the opening post in a thread asking "innocently" if racism is becoming more rampant but already having concluded that anyway)
Well godwin does apply, look back to the 1930's and how groups of people where demonized, then no one lifter a finger when plans where put into action, even the slightest act of violence is immediately linked to a terror attack.

maybe be a 'bloody immigrant' myself (nicely repackaged into expat) I'm more sensitive to it, telling an immigrant in the uk with a job and family to 'go back home' 'your stealing our jobs' etc etc does hit a nerve
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Old 25.07.2016, 15:25
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

but arent you demonizing people yourself by godwinning?

i mean, you equate people that disagree with you with people that systematically exterminated jews (et al.) by the millions (or let it happen knowingly). where to go from there? whats left to discuss?
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Old 25.07.2016, 15:32
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Well godwin does apply, look back to the 1930's and how groups of people where demonized, then no one lifter a finger when plans where put into action, even the slightest act of violence is immediately linked to a terror attack.

maybe be a 'bloody immigrant' myself (nicely repackaged into expat) I'm more sensitive to it, telling an immigrant in the uk with a job and family to 'go back home' 'your stealing our jobs' etc etc does hit a nerve
I have two friends who live in Zürich and are constantly receiving notes with something along the line "Brutes from the Balkans, go home"...they have no kids but are both engineers with very well payed jobs, so the taxes they payed since they live here are for sure much higher than what the redneck who writes these notes and sticks them on their door had done in his entire life.....but you know what? Such is life.
Crazy people everywhere.
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Old 25.07.2016, 15:34
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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but arent you demonizing people yourself by godwinning?

i mean, you equate people that disagree with you with people that systematically exterminated jews (et al.) by the millions (or let it happen knowingly). where to go from there? whats left to discuss?

i'm not advocating anything happening to these people, after all some are my friends and dare I say family, I'm more pondering what has happened recently that has turned normally intelligent educated people to start saying things like 'send them all back home' when they have not been touched in any way shape or form by anything unpleasant related to immigration, they have jobs / decent retirement , places to live, nice possessions and not so many years ago wouldn't have dreamed of spouting such rubbish
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Old 25.07.2016, 15:43
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Perhaps they're just "joking"?


UKIP councillor apologises for 'joking' Remain voters be killed

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It may now be too late to repair the debate about immigration. The silence around the subject had negative consequences, but the breaking of the taboo is a long-term disaster. It immediately led to a spike in racist abuse. All those millions of our fellow citizens who have spent the last few decades privately muttering to themselves that Enoch had a point now feel empowered, entitled, free to speak their minds at last. There is a real darkness in this country, a xenophobic, racist sickness of heart that is closer to the surface today than it has been for decades. That is a direct result of the referendum campaign.


Brexit Blues
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Old 25.07.2016, 15:57
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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I have two friends who live in Zürich and are constantly receiving notes with something along the line "Brutes from the Balkans, go home"...they have no kids but are both engineers with very well payed jobs, so the taxes they payed since they live here are for sure much higher than what the redneck who writes these notes and sticks them on their door had done in his entire life.....but you know what? Such is life.
Crazy people everywhere.
Exactly.

My home town, historically, has a very low level of immigrants. Even now, anyone from a different race of ethnic background to the locals, will tend to be 2nd or 3rd generation British people with professional careers.


That said, I spent two weeks in the UK in the run up to Brexit and hated it. The sheer venom in the air was sickening, and being a gobby mare, I gave more than a few people short shrift when they started banging on about 'all the immigrants'. If you live in the South East, I get it. I can see there is a massive problem with infrastructure, etc, but in my home town?!!! My stock answer was...

"If you had the level of foreign workers that Zurich has, then you'd have something to moan about!"


Therein lies the crux of the problem. True bigots don't define the difference between your highly qualified engineer friends, someone who has country hopped looking for a better life, and someone who is a genuine refugee. They just lump everyone in the 'you're different' pot.
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:15
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

I don't really know. Having grown up as a jew (always fish 'n chips and cevelats on Fridays - my fondest memories are following my Jehovas Witness o those nights. and bringing back the washing from the launderett)
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:16
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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i'm not advocating anything happening to these people, after all some are my friends and dare I say family, I'm more pondering what has happened recently that has turned normally intelligent educated people to start saying things like 'send them all back home' when they have not been touched in any way shape or form by anything unpleasant related to immigration, they have jobs / decent retirement , places to live, nice possessions and not so many years ago wouldn't have dreamed of spouting such rubbish
recently? it has been happening for decades. now we entered a rapids because of the high frequency of attacks that are either clearly islamic or borderline.

it was easy staying afloat in calm waters, so most people held on to their beautiful backpack full of PC. now it gets a bit more tricky to keep your head above water so the first thing you do is cast off that useless baggage. if youre smart.
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:24
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

but isn't that kinda the point? I hear people say thing like stormy waters, and crisis in the uk etc etc but the facts and figures don't bare that out, unemployment is the lowest its been in years, sure house prices and rents are high but in the big scheme of things the crisis is just in peoples heads.

just watch what would happen is they did send em all back home! all those houses flooding the market, home owners would be screwed
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:32
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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but isn't that kinda the point? I hear people say thing like stormy waters, and crisis in the uk etc etc but the facts and figures don't bare that out, unemployment is the lowest its been in years, sure house prices and rents are high but in the big scheme of things the crisis is just in peoples heads.
The author Steven Pinker argues that we are living through the most peaceful era in human history, and yet if you believe all you read on here and in certain Tabloids you'd be forgiven for thinking we're on the verge of armageddon.

I've often lamented the break down of society and the rise in 'me me me' culture. General selfishness coupled with misuse of social media has allowed everyone to become a Posh and Becks of their own little Universe, giving their often mundane and superficial views some higher importance. Rather than be worried about what their kids are eating or the fact that they're glued to a screen for 5 hours every evening, they're far more concerned about being blown up shopping in Tescos.
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:50
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

The problem with Godwin arguments is that people project parallel between their opponents and Nazis from sometimes very superficial similarities and then get so self righteous that they fail to see the flimisness of the underlying assumptions.

So if somebody says, say "we need to limit immigration", the Godwinator crowd will jump up and down and say,

1) this person is against immigration
2) The Nazis were also against immigration
3) therefore Godwin

However, the facts show a far weaker correlation

1) not everybody who is critical of immigration is against all immigration.

2) the Holocaust was not directed against immigrants but against Jews who were actually for the most part Germans (or nationals of whatever countzry they were deported from). Only the smallest part of Jews in Europe at the time were first or even second generation immigrants.

The nazis were effectively waging a war against an inner enemy, one they had imagined and created themselves.

This is actually a Marxist concept. Marxists often talk about the inner enemy or the class enemy, with one group of people, usually the rich and succesful being defined as a separate class and blamed for the problems of the others and in extreme cases, being perseucted for them. Hitler didn't rant that Jews were sponging benefeits but he did rant that they had too much money, too much power and all the good jobs. He was thus appealing to people by stoking their jealousy, an old Marxist trick.

If you point that out to people making the comparison they say, "well, it's the same thing"

Thus objectively they're saying the facts don't matter but it's the same thing anyway.

Now if they were to talk about persecution of Gypies, for example, there might be a different set of evidence. But somehow they don't.
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:55
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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The author Steven Pinker argues that we are living through the most peaceful era in human history, and yet if you believe all you read on here and in certain Tabloids you'd be forgiven for thinking we're on the verge of armageddon.
I think we were living through the most peaceful era in human history, but there's a tangible feeling of change in the air, even just in the last 8-9 months.
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Old 25.07.2016, 16:55
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

Or maybe with the increased use of the internet, smart phones and social media, such attacks reach the national press and the masses far more quickly and frequently than before? If a couple of skinheads beat up or abused an immigrant back in the 80s/90s, you'd never hear about it outside the local press.
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Old 25.07.2016, 18:46
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Na, not really, methinks it seems to be business as usual, have a look at some of Bernhard Manning´s jokes on youtube. Perfectly mainstream and normal for the times, it is just that you are too used to a PC world and as soon as things go to cock we revert back to our normal, tribal, hating-the-monkeys-in-the-other-tree homophobic, Misogynist, racist, male chauvinist pigs. I would go so far as to say it is a survival instinct that has been hardwired into our brains since the ice ages. Ok so you put on a veneer of 21st century blandness but peel it off and underneath you get the wild man.
Bernhard Manning was one of the reasons I left the UK.
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Old 25.07.2016, 19:02
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Re: is racism / hate crime becoming more acceptable?

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Bernhard Manning was one of the reasons I left the UK.
Why? Did he live next door to you?
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