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  #81  
Old 12.08.2016, 10:57
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Btw, sorry for the digression, but: do you people think the UK will actually leave the EU?
We settled this a couple of pages back, didn't we? The answer is "no".
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  #82  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:07
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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If you have to ask, you're not sufficiently infused with British culture.
You cheeky mare!


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It's from the series "Yes Minister"/"Yes Prime Minister" - a Principle Private Secretary to a minister. Quite junior in the hierarchy, but have to be very smart to survive.
Thanks for the clarification. Shockingly, I never watched it. It clashed with my college years
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  #83  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:09
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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'With the greatest possible respect, Minister ...' Translation: Minister, that is the silliest idea I've ever heard -- Ed. (The Complete Yes Minister, p.106)
...and at some point later (possibly in The Complete Yes Prime Minister) he actually tells Humphrey to not be so insulting, hence my reply!
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  #84  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:26
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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btw - 92 hereditary peers in the HoL. 26 clergy. the remain 680+ are all appointees.
Of course. But the 92 form their own house, which every law must pass. It's disingenuous to lump all members together.
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With the greatest possible respect you are not British.
So being british makes you right by definition? Otherwise that pseudo-argument has exactly zero relevance. Usually, ad hominems are used when people have run out of actual arguments.

As for the veracity of the telegraph article I linked earlier: The Guardian essentially says the same.

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It is not possible to refer to anything written down because little of this is written down. If it is written down it may or may not reflect the reality.
Even if that's not written in some high-level document, say a constitution, you should still be able to give reliable reference. So your inability to provide at least some reference (nope, any blog won't do) places considerable doubt on the veracity of your claim. But let's hear it from the Queen herself who, as both head of the church as well as the UK Sovereign, should know best:

"The British Monarchy is known as a constitutional monarchy."

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I wouldn't presume to lecture you on how Switzerland works in the unwritten order, nor the subtle dynamics of societal interplays. I would expect the same courtesy from you.
Everybody posts/says rubbish or wrong stuff once in a while. Feel free to correct me if you catch me doing so, on whatever topic.
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  #85  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:42
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Everybody posts/says rubbish or wrong stuff once in a while. Feel free to correct me if you catch me doing so, on whatever topic.
OK. Here you go, then:

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But the 92 form their own house, which every law must pass. It's disingenuous to lump all members together.
Eh? The House of Lords currently comprises 797 sitting Lords. The 92 hereditary peers are included in this number. There is only one House of Lords, in which all members are, as you put it, "lumped together". Nothing disingenuous about referring to the House of Lords as one chamber.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here....
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Old 12.08.2016, 11:48
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

I'm not British, and I'm not an expert on British constitutional law, but the Brexit referendum is non-binding, and I've seen plenty of examples where the results of referendums were NOT honoured. (For example, Staten Island is still part of the city and state of New York, and Puerto Rico is not a U.S. state.) Considering that the negative effects of Brexit are already being felt in the UK (and I'm not even talking about the possibility of the financial firms moving their headquarters to someplace like Amsterdam), it would not surprise me if Article 50 is not invoked.

What does amaze me are the number of Brexit apologists who still want to go through with this in spite of the unequivocal evidence that this is a Bad Idea.
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Old 12.08.2016, 11:49
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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OK. Here you go, then:


Eh? The House of Lords currently comprises 797 sitting Lords. The 92 hereditary peers are included in this number. There is only one House of Lords, in which all members are, as you put it, "lumped together". Nothing disingenuous about referring to the House of Lords as one chamber.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here....
Whenever I hear "House of Lords"

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  #88  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:51
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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OK. Here you go, then:


Eh? The House of Lords currently comprises 797 sitting Lords. The 92 hereditary peers are included in this number. There is only one House of Lords, in which all members are, as you put it, "lumped together". Nothing disingenuous about referring to the House of Lords as one chamber.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here....
Lol what timing. Yes I mixed that up :/
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  #89  
Old 12.08.2016, 11:58
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I'm not British, and I'm not an expert on British constitutional law, but the Brexit referendum is non-binding, and I've seen plenty of examples where the results of referendums were NOT honoured. (For example, Staten Island is still part of the city and state of New York, and Puerto Rico is not a U.S. state.) Considering that the negative effects of Brexit are already being felt in the UK (and I'm not even talking about the possibility of the financial firms moving their headquarters to someplace like Amsterdam), it would not surprise me if Article 50 is not invoked.

What does amaze me are the number of Brexit apologists who still want to go through with this in spite of the unequivocal evidence that this is a Bad Idea.
As a Brexit has never been performed before how do we know it's a "bad idea"? And what is the "unequivocal evidence"? We are 6 weeks into what will likely be a 5 to 10 year process, it's far too soon to draw any lasting conclusions.

If I may quote the UK's Prime Minister "Brexit is Brexit"...
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  #90  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:04
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

I applied for a german passport yesterday so viva la vaterland and all that so Brexit is now less of a concern for me
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  #91  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:09
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Usually, ad hominems are used when people have run out of actual arguments.
Perhaps in your culture, but not in mine. The specific ad hominem used is

a) Humerous - it's not intended to be properly insulting.
b) Oblique - it should only be picked up by people who get the reference
c) Not the main thrust of the argument
d) If you do get the meaning, that it automatically doesn't apply as it shows that you are sufficiently versed with the British paradigm. The correct response would be something like "oi - you cheeky git!", since insult/banter is part of friendly conversation for British people.

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Everybody posts/says rubbish or wrong stuff once in a while. Feel free to correct me if you catch me doing so, on whatever topic.
Will do.

Being British doesn't automatically make me right about British things, but it certainly makes me more qualified to comment on them and to spot when some non-Brit is saying things that simply aren't the case. If I was commenting on some Swiss issue and you were to say "Hang on- that's not how Swiss people think" or "That's not part of Swiss culture" or "that's not how our politics works", I'd take you at your word, defering to your superior knowledge on the subject. The fact that you are Swiss is sufficient authority in and of itself. I don't need a scholarly reference.

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We settled this a couple of pages back, didn't we? The answer is "no".
Huh? I thought it was yes.
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  #92  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:10
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I applied for a german passport yesterday so viva la vaterland and all that so Brexit is now less of a concern for me
I don't see how a non-EU passport is a problem. My UK passport expired a couple of years ago and now I use my already non-EU Swiss one to travel.

Why would the UK passport not be able to have the same status as a Swiss passport - or German??
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:14
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

Cricket but it might as well be British Politics as explained to a Foreigner

  • You have two sides, one out in the field and one in.
  • Each man that’s in the side that’s in the field goes out and when he’s out comes in and the next man goes in until he’s out.
  • When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in.
  • When they are all out, the side that’s out comes in and the side that’s been in goes out and tries to get those coming in out.
  • Sometimes there are men still in and not out.
  • There are men called umpires who stay out all the time, and they decide when the men who are in are out.
  • Depending on the weather and the light, the umpires can also send everybody in, no matter whether they’re in or out.
  • When both sides have been in and all the men are out (including those who are not out), then the game is finished.
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  #94  
Old 12.08.2016, 12:15
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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..If I may quote the UK's Prime Minister "Brexit is Brexit"...
I refer the honourable member to my earlier comment on this. While what May said is true, it is content free.
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:19
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I don't see how a non-EU passport is a problem. My UK passport expired a couple of years ago and now I use my already non-EU Swiss one to travel.

Why would the UK passport not be able to have the same status as a Swiss passport - or German??
In case the split goes bad and I have to queue in the non-schengen queues
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:24
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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I refer the honourable member to my earlier comment on this. While what May said is true, it is content free.
So it is the truth but maybe not the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:25
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Whenever I hear "House of Lords"

He's a prince, not a lord.
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:28
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Being British doesn't automatically make me right about British things, but it certainly makes me more qualified to comment on them and to spot when some non-Brit is saying things that simply aren't the case.
Still waiting for your evidence on the theocratic democracy.
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:39
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Still waiting for your evidence on the theocratic democracy.
You'll be waiting a while then. No offence intended but the basis of your position is built on so many false predicates, that to deconstruct them all would take rather more time and effort than I care to expend.
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Old 12.08.2016, 12:40
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Re: Will the UK actually leave the EU?

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Huh? I thought it was yes.
No, no, I definitely recall seeing the answer "no".

There, that's settled, then. Let's all go over to the "Do I have to pay Billag?" thread now.
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