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  #101  
Old 25.09.2016, 19:21
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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Like my children and grand-children, like my OH. Nobody would ever know - well apart from the Doctors at a specialist hospital treating my grand-daughter - who said they thought they'd finally understood what was the problem with her condition, and asked to speak to my daughter alone, to ask if she knew her child couldn't possibly be her Irish husband's !!! (until she explained about past family history).
You've hit a huge nail smack on the head there. If a group such as BLM could mobilise themselves to raise awareness of the huge issues facing black and multiracial people in need of organ donation, bone marrow transplants, etc, and get a register of potential donors together, they'd save a lot of lives.

One of my mates runs a charity in her spare time, promoting the need for the Asian communities in the UK to register as blood and organ donors.

We hear a lot of people banging on about 'grassroots' politics these days, and I'm reminded of the two mothers who began a peace organisation in Northern Ireland. There's ways and means of getting a point across, and when you hold yourself up to a higher level than those who do you wrong, recognition and respect tend to follow.
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  #102  
Old 25.09.2016, 19:24
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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This thread has taken an unexpected yet extremely entertaining turn.
We aim to please. Stop by the gift shop on your way out.
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  #103  
Old 25.09.2016, 20:18
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

Mixed race people do indeed come in every shade of 'black' or 'white' and anything in between. Apartheid showed how it works - line up the family, point and split.

Obama is mixed race but 'turned out' looking 'black'. Some turn out looking 'white' ... genetics and a lottery- and it makes a huge impact on future chances - of course x100+ during apartheid, but now too in the USA in particular - not so much in the UK or Canada, and particularly in the South. Denying it would be plain ridiculous, I'm afraid. I don't need direct experience to know, as FunnyBone says.

Huge problem indeed with black and mixed race organ donation. One of our nieces is in the process of preparing for mixed race and not matching blood group donation of one of her kidneys to a friend. But we digress indeed DB.

Mixed race is normally understood as 'some shade of brown and black' - it isn't. At what stage does a white middleclasse person becomes 'black' - colour or genes (including illnesses specific to some racial groups which do not match 'colour' as in my grand-daughter blond and blue eyes...) or in the perception of others- especially in places like Southern States of USA?

Last edited by Odile; 25.09.2016 at 20:29.
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  #104  
Old 25.09.2016, 20:38
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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At what stage does a white middleclasse person becomes 'black'
I don't know. When did you become black?
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  #105  
Old 25.09.2016, 20:46
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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I don't know. When did you become black?
Did you stick out your tongue and blew a raspberry when you asked that, too, DB?
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  #106  
Old 25.09.2016, 23:27
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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Marriage as we know it, was reserved for the privileged classes until a few centuries ago. My father's generation were almost entirely raised in single parent families with working mothers, because their fathers were away at war. To me, marriage and presence of both parents as a unit are a fairly recent societal norm. You could even say that they're handy tools to influence and control the populace for taxation purposes. I always balk when I hear politicians banging on about family values and taxation for families as policy.

But rates of illegitimacy and broken families were much lower in your father's generation than they are now, particularly for black Americans, alas.


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I don't believe there's another nation on Earth that's been so obviously and deliberately built upon such a resolute and determined mindset in one race, and pure physical strength in another race. Time and education are the levellers.

Slavery did not build the United States. Where it flourished, poverty and backwardness flourished as well. One of the US's founders, Gouverneur Morris, who was staunchly anti-slavery, put it much better than I ever could:


“Travel through the whole continent and you behold the prospect continually varying with the appearance and disappearance of slavery. [...] Proceed southwardly and every step you take through the great region of slaves presents a desert increasing with the increasing proportion of these wretched beings.”

and

“Slavery is the curse of heaven on the States where it prevails.”
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  #107  
Old 26.09.2016, 00:14
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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But rates of illegitimacy and broken families were much lower in your father's generation than they are now, particularly for black Americans, alas.
I doubt we'll ever be able to prove if that is the case or not because of the shame and secrecy involved at the time. My great aunt was a single mum back in the late 1920's, but it was all glossed over when she married a few years later, and her husband adopted her son.

I've mentioned this before, but my dad didn't set eyes on his father from the age of 9 until he was 15, and that was 'the norm' amongst his peers. In the UK, kids like my dad, and right up into the 1980's, used to be called 'latch key kids'. Just asked my OH, and he also knew the term in S.A. I've never held with illegitimacy and broken families being the deciding factors when it comes to youth delinquency. I'm far more inclined to believe the main factors are abuse within the home and exposure to exploitation and abuse outside of the home.

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Slavery did not build the United States. Where it flourished, poverty and backwardness flourished as well. One of the US's founders, Gouverneur Morris, who was staunchly anti-slavery, put it much better than I ever could:
My ex husband's ancestors were heavily involved in smuggling slaves into the Northern States, where they were promptly enlisted into the army and sent to the front line of the Civil War. "We'll make you free then send you to die for us."
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  #108  
Old 26.09.2016, 00:42
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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My ex husband's ancestors were heavily involved in smuggling slaves into the Northern States, where they were promptly enlisted into the army and sent to the front line of the Civil War. "We'll make you free then send you to die for us."
Such sensationalism. Freed blacks rushed North and volunteered, with the support of Frederick Douglas and other black leaders at the time. You make it sound like they were conscripts. Who are you quoting, and do you really think that was the mentality back then?
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  #109  
Old 26.09.2016, 00:57
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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I doubt we'll ever be able to prove if that is the case or not because of the shame and secrecy involved at the time. My great aunt was a single mum back in the late 1920's, but it was all glossed over when she married a few years later, and her husband adopted her son.

Sure, but nothing like 72% (the rate for black americans now)


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I've mentioned this before, but my dad didn't set eyes on his father from the age of 9 until he was 15, and that was 'the norm' amongst his peers. In the UK, kids like my dad, and right up into the 1980's, used to be called 'latch key kids'. Just asked my OH, and he also knew the term in S.A. I've never held with illegitimacy and broken families being the deciding factors when it comes to youth delinquency. I'm far more inclined to believe the main factors are abuse within the home and exposure to exploitation and abuse outside of the home.

Agree on the abuse point. Would just add that apparently single mother households with children of multiple fathers have the highest rates of abuse (and poverty, for that matter)


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My ex husband's ancestors were heavily involved in smuggling slaves into the Northern States, where they were promptly enlisted into the army and sent to the front line of the Civil War. "We'll make you free then send you to die for us."

This is interesting. I had understood that it was a struggle for blacks to be allowed to serve in the Army. Black regiments had to fight the Army to prove that they were good enough to be deployed on the battlefield. But perhaps conscription after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation made these issues (mostly) moot.

"The Emancipation Proclamation, issued on January 1, 1863, called for the enrollment of blacks in the Union Army and Navy. [...] It was a war message, a political document. The government of the United States, through the Office of the President, was now unequivocally on the side of emancipation and of bringing black men into the army of the Republic."
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/262...;view=fulltext
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  #110  
Old 26.09.2016, 01:17
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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This is interesting. I had understood that it was a struggle for blacks to be allowed to serve in the Army. Black regiments had to fight the Army to prove that they were good enough to be deployed on the battlefield. But perhaps conscription after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation made these issues (mostly) moot.
You're correct. My mistake.

I just googled it because my knowledge was based upon family tales, and it appears he smuggled them into Canada on the 'underground railroad'. At least that's what a quick google search showed. I'm led to believe that many Americans know my married surname, even moreso now that the family were the subject of a tv series last year, but I've reverted back to my maiden name now.

Having said that, if you've seen the film 'Glory', you'll be familiar with this...

http://www.history.com/topics/americ...setts-infantry
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  #111  
Old 26.09.2016, 01:21
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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But perhaps conscription after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation made these issues (mostly) moot.
Just to be clear, there was no conscription of blacks into the Northern army
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  #112  
Old 26.09.2016, 09:05
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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In the UK, kids like my dad, and right up into the 1980's, used to be called 'latch key kids'. Just asked my OH, and he also knew the term in S.A.
It's well known in the US as well, but generally for kids of two working parents.

Tom
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  #113  
Old 26.09.2016, 09:18
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

Whaa? A Friday thread going well through Monday? lol
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  #114  
Old 26.09.2016, 09:20
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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I've never held with illegitimacy and broken families being the deciding factors when it comes to youth delinquency. I'm far more inclined to believe the main factors are abuse within the home and exposure to exploitation and abuse outside of the home.
Is this just a hunch? There are countless studies showing a connection between juvenile delinquency and broken homes.

Children from broken homes 'nine times more likely to commit crimes'
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  #115  
Old 26.09.2016, 10:59
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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Is this just a hunch? There are countless studies showing a connection between juvenile delinquency and broken homes.

Children from broken homes 'nine times more likely to commit crimes'
I think this ...
"Seven out of 10 offenders come from broken homes, he said, adding that single parent families were more than twice as likely to live in poverty than those living with both parents."
... may well be the core of the issue as in general lower income comes with (gives rise to?) higher crime rates. I would love to see a study on youth criminality from single-parent-homes that correct for the lower income, perhaps for less-well education as well.

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Sure, but nothing like 72% (the rate for black americans now)
Lies, damned lies, and statistics, let me create the stat and I'll probably get numbers to support any argument you could want.

The bottom chart implies that having some high-sixties percentage of black offenders from unmarried-mother-homes is nothing but to be expected because it's simply their share in all births of blacks, and some high-twenties number for whites. Given that single-parent-family coincides with higher poverty risk and therefore lower average income, which in turn coincides with higher crime rates, I actually find it a bit surprising that the rates you quote aren't even higher.

Here are some charts on the topic to give a bit of a perspective. The first is from this CDC paper, it shows a clear trend to older mothers among all age groups (ages considered are 15-44):


From 1980 to today births by unmarried have gone up by about 150%:



Now, the interesting chart with respect to the quote forum post is the following. Unmarried mothers by race have gone up in general as depicted here (source is this CDC PDF), take note of again a different time frame. For a bit of perspective, this oldish Brooking's paper says that unmarried births were about 3% (white infant) vs 24% (black infant) in 1965 and 18% vs 64% in 1990.
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  #116  
Old 30.09.2016, 10:04
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

Meanwhile in Tennessee:

Student charged after wearing gorilla mask and handing out bannanas to Black Lives Matter protest
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  #117  
Old 30.09.2016, 11:28
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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My ex husband's ancestors were heavily involved in smuggling slaves into the Northern States, where they were promptly enlisted into the army and sent to the front line of the Civil War. "We'll make you free then send you to die for us."
Not actually related to this thread, but "Free State of Jones" looks like it will be a very good film and the true story behind it sounds equally amazing.



Sorry, but it seems I can't insert YouTube clips into posts anymore?

Last edited by TobiasM; 30.09.2016 at 14:41.
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  #118  
Old 30.09.2016, 11:31
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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Not actually related to this thread, but "Free State of Jones" looks like it will be a very good film and the true story behind it sounds equally amazing.



Sorry, but it seems I can't insert YouTube clips into posts anymore?
Works fine if you remove the v= between the YOUTUBE markers
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  #119  
Old 30.09.2016, 14:42
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Re: #blacklivesmatter. Who gets it and who totally doesn't?

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Works fine if you remove the v= between the YOUTUBE markers

Nope...
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